Wii Warm Up: Take the hint?
by JC Fletcher 
{ Jan 10th 2009 at 10:30AM }
But what do you think? Does it ruin the game to give you the option to make it easier? Does the game become de facto nerfed due to a failure of self-control? Or do you feel some other justification for shutting the extremely casual out of something like Zelda? We're sure some of you will. Some of you, on the other hand, may welcome such bridging efforts.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Moose @ Jan 10th 2009 10:35AM
I'm fine with it. I definitely fall into the don't-always-have-time-for-a-long-game category, so if I get stuck somewhere and don't feel like pulling my hair out for an hour, I could use this instead of finding a walkthrough on the internet.
JD @ Jan 10th 2009 11:18AM
I agree with moose. Anyone who says they have never looked up something in a walkthrough is either a liar or...uh...a liar! So instead of having to take 10 minutes to get my compy going and look it up it would be nice to have it right there on the screen. As has been stated it would be vital to be able to turn it off.
One game I thought had hints built into the script that made it way to easy was Okami. I love that game but if you went the wrong way once that stupid bug would tell you what to do. Lame.
SoshiKitai @ Jan 10th 2009 5:59PM
"Anyone who says they have never looked up something in a walkthrough is either a liar or...uh...a liar!"
:P That ain't always true.
Some of us, mainly me, buy strategy guides for the pictures (kiddish, I know) and refuse to look at it until I've beaten the game (and there's a good amount of strategy guides I have yet to look at yet... eheh).
I'm one of the few that HATE strategy guides, as it ruins the magic from the game. Strategy guides have always been the bane to a truly wonderful game, spoiling the fun of feeling like you're smart.
ChromeAlchemist @ Jan 11th 2009 12:42AM
I agree with Khan, solely because I despise doing it.
I mean it isn't cheating, but developers did not set puzzles in the game so you can look them up. I just feel like I have an edge in the game I should not have.
But I do think that it should be in there for people who are not me
Hardy @ Jan 10th 2009 10:36AM
I think it's fine.
Considering the market Nintendo put itself in, this system might be a huge boost to get more "hardcore" games over on the system.
As long as there's an ability to turn that option off.
kavorka @ Jan 10th 2009 10:42AM
When (if) I get stuck, I just head over to Gamefaqs.com anyway. I think hints are fine, but playing the game *for* you is stupid. Are we so lazy?
Mr Khan @ Jan 10th 2009 12:25PM
It doesn't play it for you, though (at least that isn't how i read it). You get basically a little embedded video (something like the quality of a flash ad) that portrays someone else who has already completed the task in the process of doing so
For some puzzles, of course, being shown what to do is as bad as having your hand held, but others are tough even if you know what you're doing
kavorka @ Jan 10th 2009 6:45PM
I agree with that. If that's true, then its not a half bad idea. I wouldn't classify it as anything worse than using a guide. But, will gamers be honest enough to give it the old college try, or just cut to the chase right away at every snag, just to save time? I argue for the validity of video games as a problem solving process developing tool for children and adults alike. Even the simplest or most straightforward of games can aid in developing the analytical reasoning centers of the brain. Will a service like this cause video games to be truly 'brain rot' as so many anti-games activists would advocate? It remains to be seen, but I'm not convinced.
chriscanberg @ Jan 10th 2009 10:53AM
Yeah as long as I can go through the entire game without it, as in as long as there's a "turn off hint system" button, then yeah whatever I'm cool with it.
and as far as it goes for people saying thats the design for the next zelda... eh. its definitely similar, but i don't want to say it is simply for the fact that whenever anybody speculated anything, its usually wrong.
But we'll find out this year, that much I'm sure of.
Matias @ Jan 10th 2009 11:13AM
I'd like that instead of using developing time and disc space on that options, they put more sidequests, dungeons, etc...
Zelda isn't hard at all, I doubt someone needs hints or a guide to beat any zelda (maybe a map for the first one).
Moptimus Slime (Leader of the Ryan Scott Defense Force, in honor of the Jan. 6 Massacre) @ Jan 10th 2009 3:42PM
Water Temple, Ocarina of Time. End of discussion.
Matias @ Jan 10th 2009 5:38PM
The water temple was harder than the others, and longer, but I did beat it without a walkthrough, I didn't have access to the internet when I played ocarina for the first time, so I couldn't use a walkthrough anyways.
Really, I think the option is useless and nintendo should use their time creating better puzzles and dungeons.
August @ Jan 10th 2009 11:42AM
I have to say, this looks far too much like Zelda than i would like, although the character looks more like a turtle...
Anyway, as others have said, as long as there's and option to turn this off I couldnt care less.
Still, isn't the point of games the interactivity?
Shadow31 @ Jan 10th 2009 11:46AM
First of all, this kills something for hardcore gamers: pride. Sure, you can say you beat it on your own, and even show the save file... but is there really any way to prove you didn't skip around or use hints? You just allowed anyone to claim they are hardcore, and the only way to prove it is by actually playing hardcore games that don't use this... this can only be rectified by introducing something like "achievement points" that prove you did the stuff yourself.
Second, as a game developer and game writer, this pisses me off. We developers spend years pouring our lives into these games, and as for doing the writing... well, we work hard to make the game what it is. If someone skips around the game, they miss content us developers worked hard to include. And they miss story that we worked hard on, disrupting the flow and ruining the emotions we try to convey. In all honest, this will destroy immersiveness. How can you really feel like you're a part of the game if you can skip around freely?
Sorry, you can't bridge the gap between casual gamer and hardcore gamer. That's like trying to create a way for men and women think exactly the same. Sorry, though some games may appeal to casual and hardcore gamers, you need some for specific audiences. This mindset is what killed Smash Bros for most hardcore gamers I know. So many people are reverting to Melee because Brawl is so tailored to beginners...
Roto13 @ Jan 10th 2009 12:01PM
"but is there really any way to prove you didn't skip around or use hints? "
Is there any way you can prove you didn't finish any game without a walkthrough?
"If someone skips around the game, they miss content us developers worked hard to include. And they miss story that we worked hard on, disrupting the flow and ruining the emotions we try to convey."
Except you don't skip anything, you watch it.
Moptimus Slime (Leader of the Ryan Scott Defense Force, in honor of the Jan. 6 Massacre) @ Jan 10th 2009 3:38PM
"Sorry, you can't bridge the gap between casual gamer and hardcore gamer"
the majority of Nintendo games and RPGs/Fighting games/Shmups would like to have a word with you
SoshiKitai @ Jan 10th 2009 6:01PM
"First of all, this kills something for hardcore gamers: pride."
Suck it up and have fun for once.
mondody @ Jan 10th 2009 8:03PM
"First of all, this kills something for hardcore gamers: pride."
according to the patent (0171), you can record and upload videos of how you went through the game to the hint system allowing other people see how you solved puzzles and such which (if it's really that important for you) enables you to show off your totally l33t skillz
lol @ Jan 12th 2009 12:36PM
brawl is not tailored to beginners.
People who went back to Melee are usually whiny gamers who miss wave dashing of old.
It's like people who don't play Mario Kart Wii because you can't snake like DS.
Eric @ Jan 10th 2009 12:00PM
That's incredibly stupid, whats the use of even playing then.... Might as well just go watch a CG movie..., Anyone can play/beat a game they just need to put a little time into it.... I mean I don't even play games on easy....(and i find even on medium/hard some games are way to easy these days...)
Roto13 @ Jan 10th 2009 12:02PM
I like this topic because it separates the rational human beings from the basement-dwelling disturbed "hardcore" gamers.
Mr Khan @ Jan 10th 2009 12:29PM
Aye. Those who are truly offended at having our hobby diluted
samfish @ Jan 10th 2009 11:05PM
Ain't that the truth!
ZombiePikmin @ Jan 10th 2009 12:25PM
I like this idea but i feel it should be more reward based. Like, get 1000 points and will show you how to do this puzzle. I know the 1000 points thing sounds like a croc, but something like that. Maybe they could work an achievement system in. But even that would only last for so long. Someone like gamestop would give you unlimited hints if you reserved the game six months in advance or something like that.
Mr Khan @ Jan 10th 2009 12:31PM
I like it, because it's win-win. Hardcore gamers win because you can turn the option off, but because the option's there, Nintendo doesn't have to worry about alienating casuals, they can make it as hard as they wish, and casuals won't be alienated, and Shiggy will be happy because more than 40% will actually finish the game
Plus being able to play the game as a movie, or re-play any scenario that you've experienced already? Schweet
time @ Jan 10th 2009 12:51PM
If it makes Nintendo make better games, then I'm all for it. I'm not planning on using it, but it being there doesn't bother me.
BobTheElephant @ Jan 10th 2009 1:35PM
I think it's fine, it's no different than having a hard mode and easy mode option in a menu...If I want to play the game and be challenged i'll just turn the stuff off...it's not that hard a concept.
Danny @ Jan 10th 2009 3:07PM
maybe a limit, like 2 hints per temple would be reasonable. Too much help can be almost considered cheating, but honostly who thinks thatif they had 2 hints the monkey temple would have been much easier?
LordD @ Jan 10th 2009 3:32PM
I like the idea in principle, but I'm afraid that I might overuse it if it's as easy as pushing a button. I'm finally getting to play Oblivion, and the fast travel system is almost ruining it for me...I just can't resist using it! I wish, for Zelda, that you can choose to not have the hint system availiable in-game, making a bit more cumbersome for me to be lazy...
Crhis @ Jan 10th 2009 2:15PM
I think this is great. If they do more things like this, than we can get the Zelda game we've always wanted without having to suffer compromises in difficulty while Nintendo can still appeal to the casual market at the same time by giving them the option to make the game a much more casual experience.
R @ Jan 10th 2009 2:51PM
"HEY LISTEN!"
ramuji @ Jan 10th 2009 3:13PM
HEY, WHY DON'T YOU SHUT THE FU ...
Oh, sorry. Kneejerk reaction ... ;)
Moptimus Slime (Leader of the Ryan Scott Defense Force, in honor of the Jan. 6 Massacre) @ Jan 10th 2009 3:44PM
See, if I would've had this for the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time, I might not have had to buy that new TV.
Matias @ Jan 10th 2009 5:49PM
I beat the water temple without any problem at all, it was harder than other temples but still easy to complete, all ocarina of time was easy to complete without a walkthrough, I was 11 years old when I beat it, and without access to the internet getting a walkthrough was impossible anyways.
I think the idea is useless, I won't use it, but having it there sort of take the value from the game, what's the point of the game resolving the puzzle itself, the puzzles are there for the player to think, evenif you're casual, what's the point of playing the game if you're not going to resolve the puzzles.
This puzzle stuff remind me of something, have someone played Lufia II?
Anti-Villian @ Jan 11th 2009 7:05AM
Troll?
esposch @ Jan 10th 2009 4:25PM
I think this is GREAT for hardcore/core gamers.
It lets Nintendo make a Zelda game not piss easy and still tailor to the casual/younger gamers. I would have KILLED for something like this trying to beat Ocarina of Time as a 10 y/o. I got up to the Spirit Temple boss (just had to do something with the huge statue) without a walkthrough before giving up. Fortunately I recently bought the Collector's Edition on Game Cube and beat it easily.
So hopefully this will benefit 10 y/o me and now me.
SoshiKitai @ Jan 10th 2009 6:02PM
HOW ABOUT WE JUST WAIT UNTIL WE SEE SOME FOOTAGE FIRST?!
:D That'd be nice.
Mr Khan @ Jan 10th 2009 10:40PM
"look at the footage!"
-Cowboy Jed
samfish @ Jan 10th 2009 11:08PM
I don't see how anyone could rationally object to this.
It's optional. You can use it if you want. Shit, if "pride", as someone else mentioned, is your big concern, record and upload your videos to the user made tutorial service they're planning.
More people get to enjoy the game this way. They aren't skipping anything, either. They let the CPU take over and play it for them.
Sheesh.
ChromeAlchemist @ Jan 11th 2009 12:44AM
sorry, thats people who are like me.
And as for the new zelda, I dunno, but it seems likely in my opinion.
Really though I think what people should be saying is ZOMG LINK WITH KATANA CONFIRMED (look at the image)
ChromeAlchemist @ Jan 11th 2009 12:46AM
and that was supposed to be a reply to Mr Khan and Kavorka
JV08 @ Jan 11th 2009 9:00AM
More often than not I run into the same situation where I actually know what to do, but according to the game I have to spend six hours looking for where it is. This is an aspect of a game that although I know if I put in the time I can find, does not make me a better or worse gamer. So instead of spending 6 hours looking for something Id much rather hit a button and get a hint. This is an aspect of games that developers put in just to lengthen time. In my opinion they are separate from active puzzles which I always solve on my own.
Its always some stupid quest saying find this object in some obscure corner of the damn game. We all know if we sat down and searched every nook and cranny of the game's world, we'd find it. However, who has that kind of time?
Danny @ Jan 11th 2009 11:47AM
Maybe it's an idea for a play on Wii title. Maybe if pikmin gets time travel, then Ocarina of time will get hints. Maybe their going to make ocarina of time on Wii!
esposch @ Jan 11th 2009 4:33PM
Maybe not.
Rocketboy @ Jan 11th 2009 8:18PM
I'm just left wondering how you can patent something like this.
W33Z3R @ Jan 12th 2009 9:47AM
Did anyone play the first new Prince of Persia? I thought that was a very clever hint system.
lol @ Jan 12th 2009 12:36PM
I'm on the fence.
As a long time gamer, I don't see why this wouldn't be acceptable. Games have had optional hints for ages. Some games don't care whether or not you use them, and some penalize you slightly (can't get the best ending, can't play all the levels, can't get a special item, etc.) In that sense, I don't see why anyone would object.
I just don't know how far this thing is willing to go. If I played Zelda, and I entered a room that had a secret, that familiar little tone would play, and I knew to keep my eyes peeled for something.
Some games do it differently, but as long as there is an option to turn it off, I see no harm in it.
I take pride in not using strategy guides, too...but that's a personal pride, not something I go around trying to prove.
I dunno though, it seems to me like having your hand held wouldn't appeal to a casual gamer. I could see simplifying the task, but not having it totally spelled out.
For instance, I need to hit several switches, in a specific order, with a specific timing, to get an item. The casual mode could just make it a Quick-Time Event and have you press a few buttons in succession. You get the same result without having to go through all the (potential) headache.
Daryl @ Jan 13th 2009 5:00PM
I'm fine with this, so long as Nintendo continues to make games complex and hard enough for serious gamers who don't want to use the option.
Daryl @ Jan 13th 2009 5:06PM
Having differing difficulty levels is long history a part of many games. Doom had different difficulty levels, as did Streets of Rage for Sega, as does Devil May Cry 4 today. I ALWAYS play on the hardest difficulty.
A game like Zelda is a puzzle solving game. For those who can play on the hardest difficulty - let them, but for those who cannot, let them lower the difficulty.
I will not be angry unless the games stop challenging those who want the challenge. If they allow multiple options, then everyone is happy.