DS Daily: Fluent yet?
A few months have passed since the last language trainer, My Japanese Coach, debuted on the DS, so now seems like an apt time to ask: if you bought one of the DS's numerous language titles, are you still returning each day to learn new lessons? Has the DS made you feel confident enough to converse with real people on the streets of Paris/Tokyo/Madrid?Oh, and as this is sort of related, did anybody ever pick up the hilariously inappropriate Spanish for Everyone?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Swampgirl Inez @ Jan 8th 2009 9:22AM
I'm planning on buying My Spanish Coach with the GameStop card I got for Christmas. Assuming I can find it, that is.
aj @ Jan 8th 2009 11:44PM
I'm still looking for a copy of My French Coach. No luck so far, but I think The Rosetta Stone and reading French children's books and pouring through textbooks will ultimately be better anyway.
James @ Jan 8th 2009 9:39AM
I've been learning Japanese for a while now. I lived there for a bit and I'm going back in April.
Can anyone tell me if this is worth it? Obviously it wouldn't be my main method of learning but it might give me a nice way to practice in between my phone call to Japan.
Chris Greenhough @ Jan 8th 2009 9:57AM
Here you go, James:
http://nintendo.joystiq.com/2008/10/30/my-japanese-coach-konnichiwa-and-beyond/
Our full hands-on experience with the game. :)
Matias @ Jan 8th 2009 9:55AM
Well, I reached the lesson when they teach you verbs, and it was sort of confusing, so I stopped using it for a while (that, and I had to use my mind for learning anatomy), but at least now I can read kana (and thanks to anime, I understand a decent amount of words), so I can somehow read game websites when they're in japanese. I followed rune factory frontier website until the game came out in japan. Sadly, kanji are the only thing stopping me from learning more advanced stuff (and reading more complex stuff too, like games >_>)
NIls @ Jan 8th 2009 10:52AM
I have it. I'm learning Japanese in a course parallel and use it to learn in between. I can not imagine it would be sufficient alone enough. Simple example.
The DS-coaches you pronomes and says "anata" means you. This is of course right, but in any real language course you will learn that it is unpolite to use in daily speek. I guess if there is one example there are more of it.
A multiple-choice teaching has its limits.
I'm enjoying it from time to time, but I guess if you really want to learn it, go to a real course or search for a japanese person who wants to learn your native language. This is even more inexpensive than the game.
duketogo @ Jan 8th 2009 11:53AM
In daily conversation "anata" is perfectly acceptable, not sure what regular course told you it`s impolite ... If My Japanese Course has a flaw it`s actually that it DOESN`T teach you enough informal Japanese.
MrFluffykins @ Jan 9th 2009 12:26AM
You're both kind of right and you're both kind of wrong. The truth is that the Japanese try and avoid using the second person in conversation because they think it's too direct. They prefer to use the third person. So while "anata" is acceptable in and of itself, one might consider it impolite to use the second person in daily conversation
lasersanchez @ Jan 8th 2009 11:16AM
The My Coach games are $20 at Best Buy this week if anyone is interested.
trickycoolj @ Jan 8th 2009 11:25AM
You can remove the reference to Berlin in your post because there is no "My German Coach."
That's right, I'm bitter about it.
Chris Greenhough @ Jan 8th 2009 11:43AM
Blimey, you're right. I was *so sure* there was a German edition as well that I didn't bother to check -- in my head I thought I could picture the boxart. Looks like I imagined it all!
Still, soon your bitterness will melt away:
http://www.play.com/Games/DS/4-/6073148/Mind-Your-Language-Learn-German/Product.html
Out next month. No idea if it's any good, though.
obaketenshi @ Jan 8th 2009 1:48PM
Me too >_< That game looks promising though. Reminds me a bit of Spellbound: http://www.game.co.uk/DS/Activity/~r335747/Spellbound/
Regardless, neither game looks to be up to the caliber of the *Coach games, but we will see!
Eric @ Jan 10th 2009 12:38AM
I'm waiting for My German Coach too.
Kimiko @ Jan 8th 2009 12:42PM
I've used My Japanese Coach for a while, but found several flaws and frustrations in it.
It teaches the wrong stroke order for several kana (and often enforces them too). It won't stop using rōmaji until you've cleared all the kana lessons, which are scattered throughout instead of all at the start. It doesn't explain verb tenses very well at all, and continually mixes up formal and informal tenses and expressions. The games only test recognition, not production.
All in all it's not very useful at all for someone who's serious about learning Japanese.
Then again, it costs only half of what a basic textbook costs, so what can you expect?
Jay Walker @ Jan 10th 2009 8:40AM
Does anyone find this true for the Chinese version. I have been taking Chinese for a long time and I find that the stroke order it's been giving me for some characters I should know is different than what I thought and feels unnatural to me. Maybe I just learned it wrong though.
neaux @ Jan 8th 2009 1:01PM
I got My Chinese Coach for christmas. I'm finding the game to be fairly fun but I'm now at lesson 7 and the game has forced me to be Chinese character literate.
(which I am not) so I'm going back to lesson one again and practicing my strokes and the written. Then once I get back to lesson 7 I will continue on.
I am retaining some knowlege though of the numbers 1-20 and days of the week so that's kinda cool.
Newfish @ Jan 8th 2009 1:23PM
I'm using this program for kicks before starting my beginning Japanese course. I don't think it's pros/cons have been properly discussed thus far in this thread, so I'll add my two cents.
To clarify: First, the game DOES explain which words are formal/informal, but as some others have said, it doesn't do the best job of reinforcing this and so can lead to confusion. And yes, it spaces out the Kana lessons, but it's helpful to learn enough vocabulary such that you can actually practice writing/reading kana.
Strengths: I don't know enough to say if it confuses stroke order, but the DS is obviously a convenient platform to practice any writing system. I find I'm learning Kana fairly quickly. The presentation is great, and the games are fun enough that I find myself having no trouble using the software on a daily basis. The doses of vocab/info are exactly the right size (about ten words or concepts per lesson).
Weaknesses: The absolute biggest weakness of this software is the way it handles which words you get in the games. Though it gives you the option to practice only vocab you have already mastered, as soon as you've finished one lesson it starts to introduce the next lesson's vocab into the game -- meaning you can't just practice old lessons, you have to continuously learn material. This SUCKS when learning kana, as it forces you onto the next lesson long before most will memorize it. Worse still, the game will give you words to write in kana from the very first lesson, which of course doesn't work as you wont' know most of the kana in a given word. This is a horrible flaw. That said, once you've cleared all the kana lessons it becomes less problematic, but it's a lousy design flaw.
Generally, the software does a weak job explaining grammar or context (e.g. when you learn the months, which are a "counter," it doesn't explain why you have to use the Chinese version of the numeral four instead of the one the software teaches you).
Despite all this I would 100% recommend this game, with the caveat that it's not great for young kids (without a tutor), as they will be confused by the problems mentioned above, and it needs to be accompanied by different software/books for grammar instruction. The software won't improve every aspect of your Japanese (conversational skills, for example), but it will improve a lot of it, especially your ability to read and write, it's super cheap, and it's more fun than any other software I've used.
Sora @ Jan 8th 2009 1:57PM
I've been learning japanese for awhile now, I know a large amount of verbs, and can completely write in hiragana,and katakana, and know some kanji, but this game is the most useful game on the ds, and people wonder why the ds is number one, the game test your knowledge of japanese at the beginning , and that's why I'm getting the chinese one, the best way to learn a language quickly is the study, and practice with person, who is a native who already know the language, If you can go , and live in japan for awhile it's a big plus.
ejamer @ Jan 8th 2009 3:58PM
I've tried the Chinese version.
The game won't teach enough to make you bilingual, but is reasonably fun and interesting. With some practice, you can pick up a lot of basic language skills. My favorite aspect of the lessons is being able to record your voice and then hear if your tones and pronounciation are correct.
As others have said, it makes a great compliment to a more serious study program.
Heather @ Jan 8th 2009 5:59PM
I picked up My Spanish Coach a few days ago. I first tried it out on PSP and quickly decided it would be much better on the DS, and from my experience, I was correct in assuming so. The mini-games such as multiple choice, word search, and whack-a-mole are much easier on the ds.
As for learning, I honestly feel like this is going to be a great learning tool for me. I say "going to be" because I have had previous knowledge of some Spanish already. The placement test in the beginning of the game did me much good.. so I didn't have to suffer through simple terms that I already understood. Because it forces you to 'learn' the words before going it even opens up the next level, I know I am learning something.. at least storing some things in my short-term memory. And it is making what I learned in classes make more sense to me. Give me a couple more weeks with it and I'm sure I'll be having at least small conversations in Spanish.
Because of the in game dictionary and phrase book, I also know this game will be travelling with me to Mexico on my next trip.
Definitely prefer the DS version over the PSP, though.
Matt @ Jan 8th 2009 6:47PM
I've been using My Japanese Coach since launch, about an hour a day of some practice and some lessons, then a few hours on weekends going back through previous lessons. Like others said, the way it quickly mixes in the things you just learned with other stuff in the games is a little rough. I've found that the best way to brush up on words or kana before I've really memorized them is just to do the Lessons again -- when you play one of the prompted games in a Lesson, it only uses that lesson's vocab or kana instead of mixing it with everything else.
When it started hitting me with almost exclusively using kana instead of romaji it was a real kick in the pants, though I've found that playing Flash Cards with the volume off (where I'm forced to read the kana very quickly) really helped with my speed in recognizing the characters.
Overall I'm really enjoying it, it's a heck of a package for the price. My biggest complaint is shoehorning the "Spelltastic" game into the Japanese version -- why is it forcing me to learn the romaji when I'm trying to focus on only kana?! Using the keyboard for romaji in "Fill in the Blank" is also silly too -- I'd much rather it let me write the kana for the words here.
Rosa @ Jan 8th 2009 9:02PM
I got my bachelor's degree in Japanese and studied it constantly for many years and I'm still not fluent. Seriously, it takes a lot of work (studying, practice, and actually living and being immersed in the country and culture) to be truly fluent. Some people have a gift, though, and can easily pick up new languages; I read it has something to do with some part of the brain that is more developed in some people than others. Of course, the younger you start learning, the better.
My Japanese Coach is a pretty fun game, but it won't make you fluent by any means. I think it's a good introduction to the language, but nothing beats learning a language in a classroom environment (in my opinion). The game is just for fun and to learn basic language skills. If you want more, you're going to have to take a class or buy and study some good language books. Of course, living in Japan is probably the fastest way to pick it up, which not everyone can do or wants to do. : )
Just my two cents.
Mikey @ Jan 8th 2009 9:35PM
I've been using it for the past two months, and I have learnt from it from knowing practically nothing. I think it's strength is that if you have your DS, you can practise, and you can learn bits and pieces of the language. I'm rarely away from my DS, so it's useful for practising, rather than lugging my text books everywhere.
If you want to learn Japanese seriously however, you will need to supplement it. It's just too simple.
Atomsk @ Jan 9th 2009 7:10AM
I pretty much agree with rosa on this.
My Japanese Coach maybe is a fun first peak for ppl interested in the language, but it's complete nonsense for anyone that really wants to learn Japanese.
What keeps bugging me is that people can't stop nagging about the minor flaws of this game (like how looking at romaji will mess up their spelling forever, oh noes!) while almost nobody mentions the biggest flaw that turns this thing into complete rubbish in terms of being a learning software.
The only thing that My Japanese Coach is really half good at is widening your vocab, but since there is no spaced repetition system, truly memorizing anything properly is impossible without the use of handwritten flashcards. Once a word is "mastered", that's it, and if you want to play a mini-game with your mastered vocab, words like "genshiryokuhatsudensho" will be indifferently mixed with stuff like the kana for "ha" or the kanji for "tree".
That leaves you with the question why you didn't spend your money on a textbook and a pack of paper flashcards in the first place.
Matt @ Jan 9th 2009 10:53AM
I agree that not being able to fine-tune the topics coming up in the Flash Card mini-game is a real hassle for trying to memorize, but playing a mini-game when prompted from a lesson *does* limit it to that category, regardless if it's now "mastered" vocab and not "open" anymore. I really don't see how hand-written flash cards are that much better than this, aside from having tighter control over what you're trying to memorize, and maybe the practice of writing it by hand. It's not perfect by any means, but for $20 you're getting the rudimentary basics, which is more than I had before starting the game. I've since had to buy textbooks and guides for more in-depth learning, but it's a great starting point for those curious about the language.
samfish @ Jan 9th 2009 3:42PM
I was in Tokyo last month. My Japanese Coach came in handy, strictly to have as a reference guide.
I can't say it's made me fluent in Japanese, though. I am considering buying Rosetta Stone software, but man oh man is that stuff expensive!
LeChuck @ Jan 10th 2009 2:12AM
I've still hoping for other language versions of English of the Dead.
Jay Walker @ Jan 10th 2009 8:48AM
I got My Chinese Coach. I have not been doing a lesson a day and it really sucks that whenever I try to review my mastered words to make sure I know everything it gives me extremely easy characters such as the numbers or the days of the week (pretty much the numbers again.) I also don't like how easy it is to master the characters if you play the flash card games since I need to master the writing part only and I only play the flash card game for fun.
Here is an interesting review by a person who worked on My Japanese Coach and My Chinese Coach:
http://thegameprogrammer.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-japanese-coach-reviewed.html
BlackDS @ Jan 12th 2009 12:00AM
I aced the placement test on My Japanese Coach, so I skipped a few lessons. :)
I think it's well done, and don't think some of the criticism is deserved.
For $30, you're getting alot for your money and a convenient way to upgrade your Japanese (in my case, since I have taken Japanese classes in the past).
I can't really comment on how well it would help beginners, since I skipped over those lessons (due to my mastery of the placement test). :)
Peace.