Aonuma can't quit Zelda until he beats Ocarina of Time
by Chris Greenhough 
{ Nov 26th 2008 at 3:28PM }
As co-director of a game that many consider the greatest of all time, you'd think Eiji Aonuma would be content to put his feet up and soak up the praise. It's what we would do, but that's probably why we'll never create anything as awe-inspiring as The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Speaking to Nintendo Power about his past work on most of the Zeldas since Ocarina of Time, Aonuma insists that he can't stop making the games, because he's yet to beat what he achieved with Ocarina. "I'm happy that a title I worked on some time ago remains highly praised to this day," he says, "but that also shows how none of the subsequent games in the series have surpassed it."
He adds that this alone may be what motivates him to make more Zelda and keep putting more happy in our heads. A revealing insight into the perfectionist mindset of a top game designer!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Toasty @ Nov 26th 2008 3:35PM
I read this as saying he hadn't actually beaten the game yet - like defeated Ganon.
I was gonna' be like, "OMG I haven't beaten him either!"
Hamster @ Nov 26th 2008 5:22PM
LOL, that's exactly what I thought! I was like, "how can you not have beaten it yet, you made it"!
Sisyphus @ Nov 26th 2008 3:39PM
I've only played the first three Zeldas, and refuse to move on until I beat LttP. Just too many other games to play at the moment, still.
D dogg @ Nov 26th 2008 3:57PM
A Link to the Past is definitely a great game but if you had the opportunity to play only ONE Zelda (i.e. "Just too many other games to play at the moment") I would suggest Ocarina of Time, period with one caveat... Wind Waker is definitely, definitely, definitely a close second with everything else being very distant.
The Zelda games (for the most part) are not in chronological order so trying to play them in "order" is irrelevant.
Marcelo @ Nov 26th 2008 4:19PM
I disagree. I think LttP is the quintessential Zelda experience. OoT is also phenomenal, but LttP is the winner here. Wind Waker has its own charm, but it has a lot of flaws.
I still love original Zelda, if only because it's the only game that is actually mysterious. I love that there are moments where you literally have no idea what's happening next.
BananaBoat @ Nov 26th 2008 4:37PM
I'd have to agree. A link to the past is probably the only game in the series that withstands the test of time on multiple levels. Ocarina of Time will always be an amazing experience, but the graphics haven't aged all that well (being that they were done at the very start of the 3D era). On the other hand, not only have the graphics in LTTP aged spectacularly, but the story is just as engrossing as it was when the game came out. I still believe that Ocarina of Time is the better game, mainly because 3D just opened up so many possibilities that you simply can't have with a 2D titles, but both games absolutely deserve their places upon the list of the best games ever.
Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Majora's Mask are just lesser-than to me. Wind Waker had gameplay elements (like sailing...oy) that weighed on the experience as a whole and brought it down. Twilight Princess suffered from being caught between the gamecube and the Wii, and the graphics show it (not to mention that the story fell flat in regards to making you want to save Hyrule and Zelda. By the end, I would have sacrificed Hyrule and Zelda for Midna and the Twili in two seconds if given the option). Majora's Mask, for its part, will always live in my mind as a disappointment for being in the same engine as Ocarina of Time, yet taking place in an alternate universe that I cared nothing about (not to mention the 24 hour mechanic that meant playing the same part of the game over and over again). I think it could be said that all three titles were solid games, but none of them comes close to the greatness achieved with LTTP and OOT.
Then again, the first Zelda will always live in my heart as the game that got me into the high-fantasy (Japan-style) adventure genre that has been so good to me over the years. It's a shame that the actual story of the game, and the map design (the map is a freaking maze) weren't really able to hold up to the test of time (IMO). The gameplay mechanics, the least of which being the "dungeon" mechanic of segregating the game into an overworld and a dungeon system, were brilliant, and while I'm not sure if Zelda was the first game to do it, it was certainly the first game that did it that well.
If there was a lesson that Aonuma learned from Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, I hope it is that art style does matter, yet less is more when talking about art. Wind Waker went way too far over the top, and Twilight Princess seemed like an over correction from the extremes of Wind Waker. If they can settle on a middle ground that involves a colorful, yet grounded in the reality of Hyrule, art-style, I think the next game could be ground breaking. That is my hope anyway.
Atlantis1982 @ Nov 26th 2008 5:37PM
>.> I say go with Majoras Mask and TP than LTTP and OOT, but I think everyone will think I am more nutty than a Skull Kid.
Marcelo @ Nov 26th 2008 5:52PM
Yeah the original Zelda map IS a freaking maze. But that's what made it so badass. I would LOVE to have a 3D Hyrule as easy to get lost in as that original Zelda map was.
That goes for the dungeons too. I much preferred the "similar square rooms" mechanic over the stylized dungeon design later on because you really did get lost in those dungeons. I mean Level 9 is just MASSIVE.
I would love to have that kind of experience in the 3D Zelda, which is something that has yet to happen. In each iteration of Zelda in 3D there's always a fairy or a NPC holding my hand telling me exactly where I need to go next. What I want is to have an open-ended Hyrule where it's not clear where the hell I'm supposed to be or where any of the dungeons are.
nintendo1889 @ Nov 26th 2008 3:58PM
Me, too! At first, I thought he didn't beat the game yet, but then I realized it meant he won't quit making Zelda games until he makes a Zelda game that surpasses Ocarina of Time.
Curtis @ Nov 26th 2008 4:03PM
How there wasn't a Brokeback Mountain reference in the title of this article I will never know. Holy missed opportunity Batman.
LeonHALP! @ Nov 26th 2008 4:11PM
I kind of noticed a pattern with Zelda games on the console that I've played. I can't really speak for earlier games because OoT was my first Zelda game and I'd be blowing smoke out my bum if I did that. Anyways!
Ocarina of Time - Epic win!
Majora's Mask - ...Not so much win.
Wind Waker - ...But that's okay cuz this one makes up for it!
Twilight Princess - ...And this one kind of drops the ball again.
By my calculations, the next Zelda game should be awesome! 8D And if not, well... Here's hoping? lol
MowDownJoe @ Nov 26th 2008 4:22PM
Why does no one like Majora's Mask? I personally preferred it to OoT. I liked the time travel shenanigans. Link having to put himself in a Groundhog Day scenerio to save Termina was quite entertaining to me.
LeonHALP! @ Nov 26th 2008 4:34PM
I didn't hate Majora's Mask, by any means, but it most definitely stepped up the difficulty from OoT, which I feel made it a bit less accessible to people. I think it was really easy to get frustrated early on with the pressure of the time always in the back of your head.
That being said, though, I think Majora's Mask has plenty to offer. I really enjoyed the storyline and found it do be a bit more dark and with a good amount of depth to it. I, personally, never felt like a Zelda game let me down A LOT, but I do believe that OoT and WW outshine MM and TP a bit. That's just my two cents though. ^_^
BananaBoat @ Nov 26th 2008 4:46PM
Wind Waker had some truly interesting and unbelievable moments, but the cel-shading and the sailing really dragged the game down for me. Instead of having the atmosphere that OOT had, the cel-shading gave it...I don't know...a sterile atmosphere? Non-organic I guess (the exception being the frozen-in-time battle in Hyrule castle under the sea. That was truly incredible, and the atmosphere was great. If only the whole game was like that..)
Majora's Mask on the other hand, had a great atmosphere. The downfall was probably in the 24 hour mechanic that left many (myself included) constantly running out of time (literally RUNNING all over Hyrule in a tizzy, just to run out of damn time). Having to do dungeons on a timer was the opposite of fun. Not to mention the nearly impossible water dungeon, but then again, all water dungeons are a bitch by design.
Gun Barrier @ Nov 26th 2008 5:15PM
Actually, the wii version is better, since its gimped. The reviewers hated the hub world, and the wii motion controller makes the Werehog more enjoyable. Thats the gist of it.
Metayoshi @ Nov 26th 2008 7:04PM
I loved Majora's Mask, and it's one of the games I find myself able to replay again and again and enjoy it almost as much as I did when I first played it. The main thing I loved about it was that it had really amazing character development. It wasn't even required to do most of the sidequests, but they showed how each and every living being in Termina had a much deeper story behind them than you think.
@ BananaBoat:
It's actually easy to keep up with time in Majora's Mask if you used the "reverse song of time" trick so slow down time. Even when I replay the game, I realize that slowing down the time gives you a ridiculous amount of time. The only time I feel rushed is during timed objectives or minigames. It's even possible to go through all 4 dungeons and beat the game within 1 in-game day after the initial 3-days to get Link's ocarina back.
Source: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ZeldaMajorasMask.html#6dc
BananaBoat @ Nov 26th 2008 10:47PM
It's possible when you already know the dungeons by heart I guess. There was no way to get through that fast without knowing though. I can't say why it took so many repeated days, but I want to say that you needed to play over and over to get masks so you could beat skull kid/majora...or something. It wasn't just the dungeons that needed to be beaten for the story to end.
Aah well. Majora's Mask is one of those games that I probably won't play again until it is in a flash emulator on a website like so many SNES games.
Crazylink @ Nov 26th 2008 4:20PM
But he already did. It was called Majora's Mask and then again with Wind Waker. Not so much with Twilight Princess.
samfish @ Nov 26th 2008 4:41PM
Personally, I think Aonuma should know when to bow out gracefully. The next Zelda needs some BG changes and I don't know that he's able to implement them, considering that the Zelda games, with Majora's Mask excepted, have stuck to the Zelda formula rigidly.
Personally, I really hope he takes a good, hard look at Okami. It did a LOT of things that Zelda should have done or needs to do.
That said, I think Twilight Princess was an awesome game. People who think it's not so great need to go back and play it again.
It leaves a bit of a sad after taste because when it's over you get a sense of "been there, done that", but at the same time, it's so fantastic going down that it makes up for it.
BananaBoat @ Nov 26th 2008 4:59PM
It wasn't a bad game, it was just extremely orthodox. It didn't do anything original to the series, and it played out very much like Ocarina of Time (without the time mechanic, which was incredible). Then there was the meh segment as the wolf tracking down the tear drops for what seemed like an eternity, and the awful art style with the low res textures, the muddy colors, and the complete lack of any diversity in the landscape of hyrule.
The one thing that needs to be carried over from TP is Midna. Not necessarily Midna herself, but the idea behind Midna. The idea that a supporting character in a Zelda game doesn't have to be this annoying fairy bitch that goes "HEY! LISTEN!" in your ear every two seconds, and that doesn't have a back story.
I would also love it if they could really play up the mythology of Hyrule (the goddesses, the tri-force, etc) and give the backstory a little bit more of a human element (as opposed to "this is the back story and it will never change, and you'll never get to play during the time of the backstory).
Something about hearing Aonuma talk about Zelda in the fashion of "I haven't beat OOT yet, but I'm still trying" makes me want to believe that he doesn't need to be replaced immediately. Most of the time, I'm of the opinion that the franchise sorely needs a new direction, with a director that actually has a sense of the story as a cohesive whole instead of just as seeing each game as one chapter (not even a connected chapter) in a long mythology of Hyrule, that they have no plans of ever bringing to a climax. I'm looking forward to seeing a teaser or some concept art. Anything to help us get an idea of which direction he will be taking the next game.
WhatIsThatThing @ Nov 26th 2008 5:00PM
I believe even Miyamoto himself has admitted in comments or interviews in the past that Twilight Princess did not live up to Zelda standards. I think it was also in this Nintendo Power interview that Aonuma was somewhat disappointed with TP. Knowing this, I'm sure they have some tricks up their sleeves (or I hope so at least) for the new Zelda. I think both have kind of realized that Zelda needs to be shaken up for the next one, hence Miyamoto's quote about Twilight Princess being the last Zelda game that's the same or something (I completely forget the actual quote).
On a completely unrelated note, does anyone have any comparisons between the 360 and Wii versions of Sonic Unleashed? I thought the Wii version was the gimped one (no CG cutscenes, no hub world, two levels missing, inferior graphics, etc.), but reviewers seem to be rating it higher...is there something I'm missing here that makes the 360 version suck more?
Gun Barrier @ Nov 26th 2008 5:17PM
@what is thatthing
Actually, the wii version is better, since its gimped. The reviewers hated the hub world, and the wii motion controller makes the Werehog more enjoyable. Thats the gist of it.
Mr Khan @ Nov 26th 2008 5:40PM
Twilight Princess is THE perfect example of "be careful what you wish for."
When we saw the WindWaker, we refused to see its brilliance and charm because all we wanted was a direct sequel to OoT. Then Twilight Princess came, and we realized that something with a bit more charm would have been preferable.
Josh @ Nov 26th 2008 4:52PM
Aonuma, if you're constantly focused on attaining some vague/concrete goal like "beat OoT", it's never going to happen. Instead you just have to focus on what makes a game fun, and how to make Zelda fun again. If you do it right, "beating OoT" should come naturally.
CJLopez @ Nov 26th 2008 5:19PM
Add some co-op to the game. Letting other players joing the action any time on the game or even beign able to play co-op online would be pretty awesome.
Something like what happened on the Phoenix Cave on Final Fantasy 3/6, on which, to solve some puzzles you needed to change from team A to team B so team B preesed the swtich to open the door and team A can't enter the room.
That would be awesome. And also, a little formula change, where there's no link cuz Gannon has locked his soul and can't born, Zelda is dead and he rules all over hyrule with the 3 pieces of the triforce. Then you use 1 Hylian, one goron and one zora to release the seal so the hero can be born
Nmaster @ Nov 26th 2008 5:35PM
Part of me hopes then that he keeps making the "second best game of all time" the rest of his life...although I guess that's a bit greedy on my part... :P
Mr Khan @ Nov 26th 2008 5:45PM
It depends on *how* he tries to beat OoT though. If he tries to beat it by creating a Zelda that is entirely fresh in terms of mechanics, just as OoT was, then he will succeed. If he tries to beat it by trying to re-create OoT, then pile more on top, he will fail
NvM @ Nov 26th 2008 7:59PM
You mean like Twilight Princess?
Mr Khan @ Nov 27th 2008 11:48AM
Exactly. That's what was wrong with Twilight Princess
madhat @ Nov 26th 2008 6:46PM
I love Zelda-ish games (Ico, Okami). Twilight Princess was my first Zelda game, and I liked it just fine. After that, I bought the first Zelda just to see how it all started. I am 38 years old but never played the original. I can see how it would kindle feeling of nostalgia if you grew up on it, but playing it for the first time... well, I like retro-games as much as the next guy but it was pretty boring.
Anyway, coincidentally I just bought Ocarina last weekend. From the screen shots it looks like TP but with lousier graphics, but I'm going to play it for a few hours over the long thanksgiving weekend and hope it grows on me and that it's not TOO similar to TP.
BananaBoat @ Nov 26th 2008 6:55PM
The original Zelda and OOT were pioneers. There had never been anything like them, so naturally many, many people have fond memories of them. Playing them through a lens of having played a hundred Zelda clones over the past decade, naturally you probably wouldn't find them to be groundbreaking.
madhat @ Nov 28th 2008 1:37PM
I ended up play OOT for 4+ hours over thanksgiving. I doubt I'll be completing it, since I already played TP and let's face it, TP is the same only with much better gfx. Having said that, I can completely see how OOT was mindblowing when it was released.
Matt @ Nov 26th 2008 8:44PM
Oh, I thought you were saying that he never finished playing Ocarina. That'd be well...awkward.
Marcelo @ Nov 26th 2008 10:26PM
I honestly don't think a change in game mechanics is necessary. What you need to do is think about what the core values of Zelda are - exploring caves and dungeons, saving the princess, an open world where you can do things out of order, maze-like dungeons, finding cool items that help you, and maintaining the atmosphere of exploration and magic and wonder.
Not so important things - having a compelling emotional storyline (sorry), sidequests, dungeons with specific themes, changing things up just to change things up, strictly adhering to canon.
Frankly I would be thrilled if they rebooted the whole damn thing and made a game called "The Legend of Zelda" which was a fully immersive 3D Zelda with the same feeling of openness and wonder as the original NES Zelda. Just drop me in the middle of Hyrule with nothing and let me find my way through a massive maze-like world jam-packed with monsters where I can get lost, find dungeons before I'm ready to experience them, get overwhelmed, discover surprises on my own (wouldn't it be great if you had to burn trees down with no indication of which tree held the entrance like in the first game?).
What don't want is for the team to give me a framing story that holds my hand and says "now you need to go to this dungeon!" and then "now you need to go here and speak to this guy!" That's the stuff that makes the game completely flat for me.
ponceturtle @ Nov 27th 2008 10:10AM
All Zelda games are great (except the cd-i ones), stop complaining or comparing them, they are all one epic story in their respective themes thats all. What would be awesome is nintendo to continue the quest of the hero of time, yes whatever happened to link after leaving termina. Imagine an older looking link on some other country side where he faces new enemies just like, zelda 2 link adventures where he faces his own darkness and a fu$%##king phoenix. Anyway i believe that the skeleton that teaches you techniques in TWP is the link from ocarina. that my opinion.
wiilover @ Nov 27th 2008 11:07AM
Am I the only 1 who saw this as an oportunity not 2 argue over which is best but to celebrate cuz he's motivated and anything better than Oot would be.....
James @ Nov 29th 2008 11:03PM
Well I think as long as he has that attitude he won't beat it. You can't top OoT by making a better OoT (TP). They have to innovate. OoT was great because it was so innovative. It's not nostalgia to think OoT was better then TP, it's just putting the innovation factor in.
Simply put don't create the next OoT.. create the next great Zelda.
Unfortunatly they don't have much to work with, the storyline has to be somehow centered around Zelda, Ganon, and Link.
James @ Nov 29th 2008 11:33PM
God damn multitasking, I forgot I didn't finish that post.
To finish it..
"Unfortunatly they don't have much to work with, the storyline has to be somehow centered around Zelda, Ganon, and Link. "
And there really isn't much you can make out of them or change them without dramatically changing the series and I just don't think Nintendo has the balls to do that and the fans may not actually want that.
Maybe make the characters a bit less one dimensional. TP was weird, it showed odd and even a bit disturbing scenes of Link and yet it was never really touched on. I'm not looking for emo Link but something more then just the great hero from a forest would be nice. Zelda has oddly been a pretty good character in OoT and WW but awful in TP where she was like a stone figure. Ganon has been the same, with time they add a bit more cruelty and madness to him, but I'm not sure that is enough to separate him as anything but a real generic video game main boss. Honestly maybe some people who might believe in him would be awesome, maybe somehow he's brainwashed people into believing he is for the best. It's happened to millions if not billions with leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Obama (kidding ;-)).. and also there are rarely people who just do it for power.. most generally believe they are doing the right thing. Some of that in Ganondorf would be pretty awesome and really add to the depth of the story.
I'm not sure how I'd add more depth to Zelda. Just make her more unique like the WW one.
All of these things aren't far fetched and have all shown themselves sometime in the series. Clearly Ganondorf was a charismatic guy in the start of OoT where he gets a meeting with the king. Link in TP has shown a bit of a dark side, and Zelda has been fairly unique for her role in previous ones.
SAKY @ Nov 30th 2008 8:45AM
You could say it ws innovative but you could also attribute that to the fact the it WAS the first 3D Zelda and new ideas were needed to make the game functional and enjoyable. With that said I attribute a lot of it's current high praise to nostalgia and that fact that it hasn't been surpased due to a lack of creativity.
Wind Waker was annoying, to much damn sailing.....but I finished it nevertheless. Twilight Princess was better but still not innovative in any meaningful way thus giving it the title of being the Oot sequal graphically and in it's presentation.
Lttp for the win.
LordD @ Dec 6th 2008 3:51AM
Oh, I missed this post, glad to get some evidence they're actually working on the new game! I would hope that they'd tone down the overworld/dungeon dicotomy a bit. I think Okami did it nicely, a really smooth progressions into the dungeons. Also I would hope that the "get a new tool, then use it against the boss right away" would be a bit more subtle, you want that "aha-factor" when you suddenly realize what is needed rather then knowing that even before you meet the boss...
LordD @ Dec 6th 2008 3:56AM
Regarding OOT/TP - I played TP(wii) first, and then tried out OOT since everyones been saying how awsome it is. It really didn't keep up my interest, since it just felt like replaying TP with older graphics (and a more annoying Midna...). That said - I'm sure that it was the coolest and most incredible experience ever when it came out, just sad that was in my 15 years long game-playing-break...