Reggie: Third-parties don't 'get' Wii [update]
by Chris Greenhough 
{ Nov 18th 2008 at 7:15PM }
The third-parties-on-Wii debate has raged for longer than we care to remember. In fact, we now counter accusations that the console lacks great third-party titles with the same, well-rehearsed response: "de Blob Zack & Wiki Resident Evil 4 World of Goo The Conduit No More Heroes Little King's Story Blast Works LostWinds Guitar Hero World Tour Okami Boom Blox Let's Tap Geometry Wars Muramasa Mega Man 9 Trauma Center." It's a bit lacking in coherency and punctuation, but people usually edge away when we shout it in their faces.
Nintendo bossman Reggie Fils-Aime (who is earning a reputation for frankness) is the latest industry figure to question the Wii's third-party output, suggesting that third-parties don't yet understand the platform. He reckons people who purchase Wiis are interested in games that sell strongly on other systems, but that the quality is missing. "I will be able to say our licensees 'get it' when their very best content is on our platform," he told Forbes. "And with very few exceptions today, that's not the case."
[Update: typo]
[Via Nintendo Everything]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Zardus @ Nov 18th 2008 7:44PM
Yes, exactly! I don't freaking want Stupid-ass-guitar-simulator-with-missing-features 2 or Shoddy-port-of-some-online-only-shooter. Hell, anything with missing features or online-only is out.
Personally (and I realize this is not the case in general probably), I could give a rat's ass about online games. While all my friends are gamers, very few own consoles. An online shooter like MOHH2 is worth absolutely nothing to me. When we play, we play split-screen. I suspect that a person newly into gaming would be in a similar situation (especially if they were the first to buy a console in their group of friends). There needs to be split screen to hold people over until others they know get consoles. Almost every FPS for the Wii (and they're pretty much all third party) is either online-only or single-player. The two exceptions I can think of off the top of my head, Red Steel and Quantum of Solace, are both rushed, crappy games (or in the case of QoS, really bad ports).
If something like Time Splitters came out for the Wii, sans retarded feature cuts and bad porting, I would buy 20 copies of out of insane enthusiasm, and every other Wii owner I know would do the same (though I don't know any Wii-owning grandmas).
Make. Good. Games. For. The. Wii. You. Stupid. Third. Parties.
rouroniJohn @ Nov 18th 2008 7:46PM
who the hell is this guy any way?
i come on the site all the time and hes made the news like once a week every week...if hes responsible for the
fact that ive almost entirely given up gaming cause of
his less than perfect system im gonna
ask him for a refund!
Secre @ Nov 18th 2008 8:55PM
He's the president of Nintendo of America. He wouldn't be the reason for the casual market engulfing what could be a great hardcore system with a different style. He's just the figurehead of the American branch of the company headquartered in Japan that had made it hard for Hardcore gamers to use Nintendo as a great platform all the time. And I say this as a Nintendo fanboy still clinging to the hope that the statement that the hardcore fan will be pleased with 2008.
Continuing with that and making a comment towards the topic at hand, if Nintendo hadn't attacked the casual market, it might be possible that Nintendo actually would get far more third party titles than they have. I'd say that Nintendo is the ones who don't understand the console, since they're the main reason many Nintendo faithful, such as myself, are losing their faith in the company.
Many third party companies have put forth great games, only to get a tenth of the sales they needed because all their games gets lost in the onslaught of casual crap that keeps coming from Nintendo itself.
Secre @ Nov 18th 2008 8:57PM
Edit to the first paragraph: "And I say this as a Nintendo fanboy still clinging to the hope that the statement that the hardcore fan will be pleased with 2009."
Erik Stroud @ Nov 18th 2008 8:57PM
He is just to ignorant to admit the Wii has bad games. I don't think they don't get it. I think they just can't make a good game with hard ware that is dated and doesn't work right. The wii mote works sometimes, but the lack of true motion control is a downer. When I can shake it for most things and it works, there is soemthing wrong.
Sonic_13 @ Nov 18th 2008 9:14PM
"He is just to ignorant to admit the Wii has bad games. I don't think they don't get it."
What are you talking about? He basically just came right out and said that...
"I think they just can't make a good game with hard ware that is dated and doesn't work right."
Hello. My name is Sonic_13. Let me introduce you to my friends called Super Mario Galaxy, Zack and Wiki: Quest for Barbarous Treasure, World of Goo, Tetris Party, Wii Sports, de Blob, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, No More Heroes, Art Style: Orbient/Rotohex/Cubello, Boom Blox, WarioLand: Shake It!, Super Paper Mario, Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition, Dr. Mario Online Rx, Link's Crossbow Training, Animal Crossing: City Folk, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Sonic and the Secret Rings, WarioWare Smooth Moves, Mario Strikers Charged, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption....I could go on.
"The wii mote works sometimes, but the lack of true motion control is a downer."
Ever hear of MotionPlus?
"When I can shake it for most things and it works, there is soemthing wrong."
So when it works, it's wrong? Huh?
Roto13 @ Nov 18th 2008 10:05PM
Less than perfect?
That certainly cuts deep.
rainking187 @ Nov 19th 2008 6:49AM
"Ever hear of MotionPlus?"Ever see MotionPlus in a store? I think there's something seriously wrong when your whole system is based on motion controls and they rarely work. Wii Sports feels like a cheat because you assume everything will control like that, when in reality it's probably the only game on the Wii with good motion controls. I can't even count how many times I've played a game and waved the Wiimote only to have it either not do anything at all or to apply way more force to my movements than expected. I really wish more games had the options to use a GameCube controller.
romulo @ Nov 18th 2008 7:55PM
Too bad third parties dont want to develop THAT much for Wii as they want for other consoles. Nintendo's fault here anyway. The wii is much harder to develop for, have no support for shaders, needs ALOT of extra work to do common things (like sphere mapping and cube mapping), the online service sucks (friend codes anyone?) and ninty still thinks they are on top of everything/everyone. I love the Wii but Nintendo is starting to piss me off. First we have no DVD support (fake promissed) no downloadable content for a long time (c'mon, 2 years late!!), friend codes, and finally a stupid 3.2/3.3/3.4 non-sense updates (while mario kart and other games are being cheated online). Thats the way to go Ninty, to the hell......
Roto13 @ Nov 18th 2008 10:07PM
"Too bad third parties dont want to develop THAT much for Wii as they want for other consoles. Nintendo's fault here anyway. The wii is much harder to develop for"
There's no way the Wii is harder to develop for than the PS3.
guttertalk @ Nov 18th 2008 10:30PM
You raise some valid points (a couple I've complained about), but the Wii is not harder to develop for than other platforms, especially when you consider the PS3.
Julian Eggebrecht of Factor 5: "You can't go into making a game on the Wii thinking that its a PC or an Xbox, because if you do you won't be able to make games look as good as you want. The developer willl come away thinking that the Wii just isn't capable of doing things like Shaders, Normal Mapping, Motion-Blur, detailed textures and Bloom lighting-when it absolutely can. The system is capable of every Next Gen effect out there, maybe it can't do all at once but it can do them all to a lesser degree at least.
Look for Super Mario Galaxy to fully expose all these developers when it actually does all things graphically that Third Parties have said the Wii cannot do. Its too bad we only have 1 true game to prove this (Metroid Prime 3 is close) . . . ."
Sometimes, complaints of difficult programming are just cases of sloppy programming as Julian indicates.
I think what we're seeing is the result of publishers who came to late to the Wii and gave even more aggressive deadlines for games, squeezing out time to create better games. (Combine that with the perception that Wii owners are non-discriminating gamers, and you don't have a great incentive to spend time or money developing better games for the Wii.)
Plus, if the Wii development is 1/4 - 1/2 the cost to develop than the 360 or PS3, I'm not sure how it can be harder to program for.
Finally, there is middleware out there with programmable shaders and the like for the Wii, such as Gamebryo, Q 2.0, Torque, Quantum3, etc. So, you have engines (some quite familiar) that developers can use to create Wii games with.
SoulBlade @ Nov 19th 2008 10:29AM
While you're right on the limitations of the hardware, dev studios probably find the Wii a lot easier to develop for because they already have some pretty mature development tools that were used for the Gamecube. They basically use the same development tools according to some people I've talked to in the industry.
It's certainly a lot easier to develop for a platform that you already are familiar with vs. a completely new piece of hardware.
Kenology18 @ Nov 18th 2008 8:14PM
True words spoken, Reggie. So many trivia games and pet simulators are clogging up store shelves like you wouldn't believe. It's like 3rd parties take the media smear and create the type of games that those folks say the Wii is all about. Nintendo is going after the Blue Ocean, and rightfully so, but 3rd parties are putting out dumb-downed garbage. Soon, they will learn.
Big ups to Capcom. Big ups to Marvelous. More PLEASE.
lotrfish @ Nov 18th 2008 8:22PM
Fire Emblem isn't third party.
Metayoshi @ Nov 18th 2008 10:25PM
I was going to say that.
Fire Emblem is developed by Intelligent Systems, which is a first party studio of Nintendo's. Advance Wars, Puzzle League, and Paper Mario are some of the few game series they are credited for developing.
R_Fusion @ Nov 18th 2008 8:34PM
Him again!
Maginomicon @ Nov 18th 2008 8:50PM
My bet is third parties won't 'get' Wii until Nintendo finally acknowledges how much potential the Wii has that /they aren't tapping into/.
Sonic_13 @ Nov 18th 2008 9:15PM
I think your point might be interesting, but I'm not sure I understand it exactly. Could you elaborate more?
Maginomicon @ Nov 19th 2008 1:18AM
Nintendo is either ignorant of or holding back the potential of the Wii remote.
Details can be found at http://www.FullMotion.org
Hardy @ Nov 18th 2008 9:14PM
Yeah. They don't get it...They keep making games that are half ideas like that music one.
They remake old games with little to no updates, like that one where you own a house and go around fishing.
Games that just don't work right. Like that racing game where the AI is just horrible.
They just don't get it.
.. Oh wait, we're talking about third parties... lol
I love Nintendo, I own the games I mentioned, minus AC, but seriously... It's getting pretty stupid.
Online and DLC have been the biggest dissapointmen t for me.
Mr Khan @ Nov 18th 2008 9:18PM
The reason third parties "don't get it" has multiple components. STILL, at this point, we're at the tail-end of the games that were started before it became apparent that the Wii would be far and away the top seller of the generation. Games released today would have been commenced back in late 06, when the future was still in doubt.
Second of all, there is the fact that the Wii is a step backwards for Western developers, who were already developing PS360 level games in the latter days of last generation. Western developers thrive on the features of the HD consoles, high power and online features. They have never felt at home on Nintendo consoles, which attract family oriented games of often simpler appeal.
However, the trend is shifting, with Japan leading the charge. The very best products will never come to Wii, because of the previous problems, but the situation is going to improve rapidly over the coming year and beyond
Sonic_13 @ Nov 18th 2008 9:54PM
"Second of all, there is the fact that the Wii is a step backwards for Western developers, who were already developing PS360 level games in the latter days of last generation. Western developers thrive on the features of the HD consoles, high power and online features."
You would think that because of this 3rd party developers would have no problem producing quality games on Wii since it's a "step backwards" for them (something they should already feel comfortable doing) yet they still seem to struggle.
Papytendo @ Nov 18th 2008 9:18PM
*Highfives Reggie*
Sora @ Nov 18th 2008 9:27PM
So, in other words, "It's not us, it's them."
SoshiKitai @ Nov 19th 2008 12:07PM
Kinda'... if you consider the fact that a huge population blames non-Nintendo-made/published games on Nintendo.
Aaron @ Nov 18th 2008 9:42PM
All I'm hoping for is that Nintendo doesn't decide to use 360 graphics next gen. They need to go with Blu Ray or something of similar power and graphical capabilities. The Wii is the only next gen console I own, but it's depressing how much shovelware it gets and how Nintendo wants to cater to casuals. Casuals aren't reliable, I can promise that if they continue this way into the 8th Gen Consoles the casuals won't be buying because 1 of 2 things will happen.
1. They will realize they barely touched the Wii and will not buy another system.
2. They are happy with the Wii and will not buy another system.
It's actually kinda sad. I DON'T want to see Nintendo fail, but you know what they say; the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
themizarkshow @ Nov 18th 2008 9:45PM
I think the higher-ups at the Big N are losing their freakin minds. What will happen when the next big casual gaming thing comes along and takes the DS and Wii out of the game? Will they turn back to their hardcore fanbase and the fanboys that have all their systems? Or will they keep chasing after that "casual gaming audience" forever?
Do what you want Nintendo. I've moved on. Let me know when you put out another decent title. Then I'll have a reason to play my Wii again.
soko @ Nov 18th 2008 11:27PM
?Do what you want Nintendo. I've moved on. Let me know when you put out another decent title. Then I'll have a reason to play my Wii again."
Strong words, I've moved on...you know...unless you want me back, please take me back.
themizarkshow @ Nov 19th 2008 1:05AM
I just want to use the system I've spent all this money on already. I use all my other consoles... but the Nintendo stuff is just sitting there with nothing to play. And when I get new titles it takes a few days to beat it and then I'm back to the PS3 or 360.
SoshiKitai @ Nov 19th 2008 12:10PM
Could you just drop it already? Please? For us?
You know... SELL YOUR WII.
It's like a person who's going to commit suicide... he keeps going back into the office, saying he's going to do it. He swears he's going to do it! Yet... the next day, he comes back to the office, clammoring the same thing.
Stop being so selfish as to take our time to rant about your complaints, and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Gawd, you're like Greenpeace...
Ampharos64 @ Nov 19th 2008 12:46AM
*Clings to precious copy of Okami...not that that was developed for the system*
Really, I'm inclined to blame Nintendo for any lack of third party support. If Nintendo themselves focus on a casual audience, then that's the kind of game third parties will produce, as casual games become percieved as what will sell on the system (look at the slow avalance of RPGs, especially old-school ones, the DS has recieved). These games could still be better quality, but I think are less likely to be than more demanding, traditional games.
Though I frequently wish third parties would promote their own games better, Nintendo could have helped more here, as well, and encouraged more people to try possibly unfamilier third-part games - sometimes people just seem to wait for the next Mario or Zelda, without checking what else is out there. I think Reggie is right that people with a Wii are, or could be, interested in 'games that sell strongly on other systems', but maybe they don't always hear enough about those already on the console to want to go out and buy them, especially if they're unsure about what the game will be like (which in turn, puts off more third party development due to poor sales).
Regardless, I don't think it's a particulary good strategy for Reggie to criticise third-parties - it's hardly going to encourage third party development. *Sigh*
Nintendo has always been criticised for not handling third party development particulary well. I just hope they think about ways to encourage more, and better, third party games, as Reggie at least seems to have aknowleged it as a problem.
"When I can shake it for most things and it works, there is soemthing wrong."
'So when it works, it's wrong? Huh?'
I think what was meant was that the controls don't alwys require much precision, sometimes indiscriminate shaking working just as well as more skillful careful movement. I too hope Wii Motion plus will fix this, though it should really have been included in the first place.
I actually bought the Wii for the interesting third party games (like Trauma Center) I expected it to get, so here's fingers crossed.
Ponza @ Nov 19th 2008 2:56AM
No love for MLB Power Pros? :S
igorponweed @ Nov 19th 2008 9:52AM
I demand you remove Blast Works! I hated that game.
SoshiKitai @ Nov 19th 2008 12:14PM
...oh sorry, did you suddenly become a large populace?
...I'm sorry, it's just that... when a lot of people like a game, we put it up as a good game. When one person doesn't like a game- unless they're the head of something / find TONS MORE PEOPLE who agree with him/her -we're not going to put them up on the charts.
igorponweed @ Nov 19th 2008 12:20PM
I'm sorry. I just found it broken. It was frustrating since I was hyping it so much,. SO now when it's brought up, I get really worked up.
Dravez @ Nov 19th 2008 10:19AM
In summary, the wii games sucks. I own a wii since october 2007; i cant wait to start working and buy a PS3. There are a few good games for the wii (i own them all), but im really tired of waiting 4 to 6 months for a decent game.
SoshiKitai @ Nov 19th 2008 12:17PM
.....whoah, you own ALL the games, yet you couldn't just trade them all in for/buy a PS3?
:/ That seems rather odd.
...and why does everyone seem to be going for the PS3 after they drop the Wii? The smarter choice is the 360, since the PS3 is still lacking in its library (I don't count Sports games... I'm not a big fan of sports games)... unless of course they just want a Blu-ray player, in that case it's an intelligent choice. (I just got it for MGS4 and LBP. :P)
phenylketonurics @ Nov 19th 2008 10:52AM
Spoiled little brats, all of you!
Third party releases are fine, I swear to god. If you really don't like them, IGNORE THEM. They'll go away.
nastysquar3d @ Nov 19th 2008 11:34AM
I bought a Wii at launch and fully expected it to be the only system I would own... I am a Nintendo Fanboy after all.
However, after 2 years of extremelly slow GOOD game releases and lackluster announcements I turned my back and bought a PS3.
I'll keep my Wii, because when that occasional gem comes around I'll want to play it not to mention I think WiiWare is looking fantastic right now. But as for the most part I'll be solely playing the PS3 until my Wii starts "putting out" again.
SoshiKitai @ Nov 19th 2008 12:25PM
Ouch... I would NOT trust a "different kind of system" to be my one and only console!
It's kinda' like buying the N-Gage for your gaming needs. O_o
It COULD be something, but you can't expect it to be.
Don't go for hypes or rumors, it's just advertising to keep the business going.
It's kinda' obvious that the better choice for a SOLID console, is something that's been doing the same thing as the previous console, except just amping those areas up. AKA a 360/PS3.
That... and I don't think it's fair to buy just ONE system. It makes you miss all the other ground-breakingly awesome games that were on the other system. ...think of how many AMAZING online-battles the PS2-only fans missed when they refused the Xbox. Think of the simple-funs they missed when they hated the Gamecube.
I think all the systems are great... we're all just a little bitter on the inside. :P
nastysquar3d @ Nov 19th 2008 12:35PM
I agree that you miss out on some good games when you own only one system, but in previous generations I was fine "missing out" on some good games because I had enough good games on my system to keep me satisfied.
I would've been fine with just the Wii as my only system, as with work, a g/f and a pet I don't get as much time to game as I used to. But even with the distractions there still weren't enough games that I wanted to play to keep me occupied when I got the time to game.
Hell, I had enough games on the Gamecube to keep me satisfied. But the Wii... well, lets just say despite my minimal play time I can't find enough on the system to warrant it being my only system, which is sad.