Point/Counterpoint: Does Castlevania need new blood?

by JC Fletcher { Sep 19th 2008 at 2:00PM }

We're about a month away from getting our hands on the third Castlevania game on the DS, and yes, we are enthused. We loved the last DS game, as we did the one before it ... and the three Game Boy Advance games before that.

Producer Koji Igarashi has definitely found his recipe for Vanias, and he's changed very little since hitting upon the combination of side-scrolling action, free-roaming exploration, and light RPG elements that made Symphony of the Night such a startlingly new experience ... back in 1997.

Let's be clear: both of the bloggers participating in this debate love them some Castlevania. But the issue of the series' increasing potential for staleness is a real one, and worth discussing even just as a thought exercise. Has Metroidvania run its course? Read on and find out ... what two people think.

Gallery: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

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Tags: action, castlevania, igarashi, konami, order-of-ecclesia

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Andrew @ Sep 19th 2008 2:13PM

Castlevania is doing an excellent job changing while staying the same. I trust Konami to innovate within each title just enough to keep it fun, while not totally screwing up the things that work (see Sonic the Hedgehog 2006).

nil @ Sep 19th 2008 2:25PM

I love the graphics and music but I'm sick of the Metroidvania gameplay. Give me old-school, linear Castlevania gameplay coupled with the present aesthetic and I'll be perfectly happy.

Zealot @ Sep 19th 2008 2:48PM

Soma Crocker almost made me choke to death on my own spit, and yet, I'm oddly compelled to thank whoever designed that for it. It's hideous; it's brilliant.

I'm about as deep into the pro-Metroidvania camp as someone can get. I actually love what stays the same from game to game more than what changes. The pervasiveness of gothic horror, the amazing references to world mythologies in the weapons, items, and monsters, and the dollhouse-like intricacy of the decoration in each room of each level defines the series for me. The storylines of the games have (arguably) become more contrived and less relevant to the original Belmonts vs. Dracula arc and, yet, it seems like I've only become more enthused about the series with each passing title.

The elements come together to create something that is both perfect and familiar, and at this intersection is what separates games that grow stale with each iteration from those that don't--the cycle of the perpetual feeling that everything is over too soon, the longing for the next title, and the playing of the game that releases this pent-up anticipation only to begin it again. Many games become one, linked by a shared sense of greatness and divided only by time. Not only can I not imagine it any other way, I don't want to.

Alisha Karabinus @ Sep 19th 2008 3:17PM

Soma Crocker was a group effort. ;)

Zealot @ Sep 19th 2008 4:15PM

Then good job, everyone. You absolutely have to work that image in whenever possible in the future.

And I just realized I didn't even address why Metroidvania is superior in my post, just why I like it. I'm going to have to give myself an F......for fanboy. (and failure, eh heh.)

Giovani Cospefogo @ Sep 19th 2008 2:59PM

I really would love to see a "fast-paced" Castlevania like Castlevania 3 on NES (the best of all time) instead a Metroid-Vania style (like Symphony and all others that came after).

I like the simple arcade feelings you have when you just need to play and beat the bosses, with not so much trouble and deviations around the game path.

But, any - 2D of course - Castlevania is welcome!

Hafk @ Sep 19th 2008 3:51PM

Here's a suggestion: Less Save points.

I seriously get through these games without using a single potion except maybe one or two on a boss, simply because save points are a dime a dozen.

Also, make these games hard again.

Matt G. @ Sep 19th 2008 5:23PM

I must stink at Castlevania games then because with the exception of the first two to three hours, I am pretty much always glad to see a save point when I do. I barely make it to them quite often.

David Kearns @ Sep 19th 2008 4:24PM

I like the direction it has already headed, they can think about changing them dramatically after kicking out 5 or 10 more...

TX2 @ Sep 19th 2008 4:53PM

Honestly, I think the Metroid formula is the prime (god forgive the pun) model for the 2D platformer.
I merely have to mention
Cave story
to support this point.

The key to metroidvanias though is how flexible they are. There's always plenty of room to shake things up- so long as you keep it balanced. As I recall PoR had a bit less exploration and focused a little more on linear gameplay. They could have compensated for this more with a thicker story and more challenging platforming, but that's just me.

If they should break from this model it would have to be something BIG and it would have to really really work.
I'd say something along the lines of a Banjo-Tooie style platformer with LESS empty scavenger hunting and more interconnected cause and effect puzzles.

Enmamiryoku @ Sep 19th 2008 8:29PM

I believe there are still a lot of styles to create a great Castlevania/2D action game. But I also agree the current Metroid formula is a very very good ways to produce 2D platformer due to its flexibility.
I think the current Castlevania has provided the necessary gameplay choices to cater different fans. For instance, I think the last installment of the series, Portrait of ruin, maybe the best of Castlevania we ever had.I complete every single mode including the Hard(Cap at level 1) and the hidden 'Blue Armor' mode. I think the blue armor mode is exactly the 'hard old school style' some have asked for. The hard (level 1) mode, which virtually any attack from any enemy inflict about 90% damage of full health, should have provided the challenge for those who ask for it and people may think the save points are not enough. This mode is actually dedicatedly balanced to a level that change the original gameplay. It works like Ghost n' Ghouls, which the most important thing to beat the game is to figure out how the whole scene works, and solve it like a logic puzzle, because most of the enemy attack quite differently and hard to pass totally rely on reflex.
So I'm convinced that Igarashi has been taking the games quite seriously and would change things in a feasible way to make the coming CastleVania.
(P.S. I recommend to give a try to the mode mentioned above, U won't find meaningless difficulties. There are lots of wonders await!)

Red @ Sep 19th 2008 8:33PM

What I'm not getting is why it's so...polarized. Either one or the other. You know, Konami's got the seeming choice of sticking with Metroidvania forever and ever, or salting the earth and burning it to the ground and never ever making another Metroidvania game ever.

Both sides do have decent points. The maps and enemies are getting somewhat repetitive: the castles tend to bleed together like watercolors, and the sprite reuse is...yeah. They could get more creative. I mean, I still remember the circus map in Portrait of Ruin because of the creative use of gravity.

But conversely, it's not like they're just pumping out just Metroidvanias. There's Curse of Darkness and Lament of Innocence for the PS2, and Castlevania Judgement for the Wii. Plenty of change right there.

manaman @ Sep 20th 2008 12:24AM

Personally, I feel the problem is not so much the trend of making similar games within a series or trying to create innovations in a series. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion of what they want to see and with series getting so long these days, it's hard to please everyone. I think if more of us took chances on new ideas, we would see more variety in our games and find companies dedicating their time to creative new ideas. Don't get me wrong. I think Nintendo has a history of the best video game series. Still, it would be nice if they didn't come out as often. And we would also find that innovations could then affect the games in series we love.

Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Sep 20th 2008 11:18AM

Not platformer fan. In fact I hate Castlevania because I bought it some time ago. Just like with Mario - another dumbly wasted 40� on overrated sentimental junk.

If only they had made and RPG... Then it might have been a different story.

chris @ Sep 20th 2008 5:03PM

WOW I feel so passionately about this! But for me, the new blood has to come from KILLING OFF CASTLEVANIA. I love the new gameplay -- I even love what they have kept static -- and think there's potential for all the bestest platform gaming ever to come in this franchise, but I am SO SICK of Castlevania and the awful writing. Also, how fun is it to get the same weapons and items and armors over and over? There are lots of changes in each episode -- they do lots of great, hard, work over there, and I love that. But Castlevania was only a mildly interesting setting to me when I was eight years old, and since then it has only gotten less and less so. Ditch the fake flamboyant vampire thing and get some new story writers in, PLEASE!!! When I first played Symphony for the PSX I was thinking, awesome! Castlevania finally delivered on the potential of Metroid; given it a hundred times more equipment to use and more dynamic moves! Now... I keep hoping something will take Castlevania and maybe... set it BACK in Metroidland.

chris @ Sep 20th 2008 5:06PM

wow. whoops, i got all excited, posted a response after reading the RSS post about this topic. Meaning that I kind of duplicated your thoughts on the subject (all while feeling VERY OBSERVANT about the Metroidvania thing), THEN i read that you'd said those things already. Anyway, I still maintain that if you're playing a nostalgic vampire game for ten years, then you're obviously going to feel stuck in a rut. It doesn't mean the gameplay is any less good than it was in 1997 or whatever it was. It just means you need to get some new writers in and take the damn handcuffs off the art and music teams. I look forward to the new Castlevania, I just dread the organ music.

Benn @ Sep 20th 2008 6:30PM

I've honestly never liked the "metroidvania" games. Mostly I just hate the level design, which seems directed more at getting you to the next screen than making it fun to get to the next screen. It's always "jump to the step, kill the guy, jump to the next step". It's not very inventive. That, and the games gets depressingly easy later on, because you've reached level 90 and you can kill every enemy in one hit.

What I'd like to see is a Castlevania game with the controls and inventiveness of the early games, along with the art direction and scale of Symphony of the Night. It would be linear, with branching paths, smart enemies, and a limit to unlockables and all that unnecessary bullshit. That would be all it would take to "revive" Castlevania.

Wilerson @ Sep 21st 2008 9:34AM

I'm gonna get Order of Ecclesia as soon as I can, but I want an old-school game. Perhaps one where you play as Julius Belmont, pre-Aria of Sorrow? That'd be way too awesome.

LordFu @ Sep 21st 2008 8:39PM

Both arguements are well made; especially the point about the forgotten and unloved iterations.

Surely, there's a happy medium between Simon's Quest, Symphony of the Night, and Castlevania 64.

keiichi @ Sep 22nd 2008 2:16AM

One way I can think of to make the Metroidvania style of gameplay harder (and more oldskool Castlevania-like) is by having pitfalls where you can die instantly (or something in the vein of the spikes in the Megaman games). Also, the return of stairs would be very welcome! It would also be more realistic (I have NEVER jumped on platforms to reach higher areas - I use the frickin' stairs!).

Nathan @ Oct 8th 2008 12:32PM

In his respective time, Castlevania had a wash of face very interesting, it did well, but it is a time of which the epoch of Iga is ended by the good of the saga.

reborn the classics oldschool plattaforms!!! *-*

matthew dickinson @ Oct 20th 2008 3:51PM

The music in the 8-bit games (NES, Haunted Castle, Bloodlines) was the best... SNES version too (the genesis had 8-bit soundchip). I wish there was more catchy, quickly-looping music like that for the series. When you die (which should be frequent) it should have instant death-music play like it used to in the arcade days and on the NES. Maybe you can hear it in your head. They could bring back the staircase thing. If they want to make it clever, it could be that you have to talk to this shopkeeper guy who lives in the caves of all places and he tricks you by putting a spell on you so that you have "vertigo" when going up and down stairs or when jumping over pits, and that's the explanation for why you can get stuck on them or easily fall down holes. I'd put in all sorts of new rad shit into the castlevania series. It's so easy to think of ideas. You could just have all kinds of crazy enemies flying at you, weird characters to meat, I mean meet, and so forth. I'd take my inspiration more from Elvira and EC horror comics of the 50s than most of these recent "sonata"-type Castlevanias ("oh, aren't we so pretty!") plus i'd infuse some more realistic victorian/bram stoker kind of world into it. Sometimes the new castlevanias do get things right, especially in the animation and background details (like the snow outside in Dawn of Sorrow, and when you jump on the cars), but I think the series needs to be taken off the handheld and given a full proper release back in the arcade or maybe on Xbox360. Wasn't there some new arcade version of castlevania where you hold motion-controlled whips in your hands and the game controls on rails (like House of the Dead)? or was I dreaming. Anyway, I'd just like to see a simple, hard 8-bit style game where you mainly just need to worry about backing away from the guy when he attacks, jumping at him at the right time (but not while the skeleton guy on the higher level is throwing one of his bones at you) -- all that simple, elementary stuff. What the games have become now is too much about item management and picking out your clothes.

matthew dickinson @ Oct 20th 2008 4:16PM

Then again I don't really give a shit because I'm too old to be playing video games. What's a guy like me, nearly 26 years old, doing yapping on and on in the comments section of a 4-week-old article about how Castlevania should be? All I gots to say is that I never thought Symphony of the NIght was all that good. Not even when it was new. And i had been hyped up by the magazine articles of the time, too, so it wasn't some retro-i-hate-anything-that's-cool thing going on either. I mean i did play it all the way through and got Richter, and i've played most of the handheld ones, so I guess actions speak louder than words, but still i think the series is too soft and easy on the player. it's too much about finding items and looking at "beautiful" (boring) classical / Victorian settings. Seriously, the scarier places in like NES Castlevania 1 & 2 or the leaning tower of piza level in Bloodlines were a lot better... and the reason is that you can't go anywhere you want, and each level doesn't have the same design where nothing you do in it matters (there are save points everywhere, which fill up your HP, making it easy, plus you can't fall to your death, making the platforming so easy a blind person can do it just as well)

matthew dickinson @ Oct 20th 2008 4:19PM

Actually, you know what, I think the series is great as it is. It was probably just a case of there being too much of the same for too long. Konami should just do what they think works best and base it on sales. NOT sarcasm. Because listening to the fans gets you into all sorts of trouble. Trying to cater to them all the time (people like me). It just leads to a lot of compromises, trying to please everybody.