Wii Warm Up: In the middle

by Alisha Karabinus { Aug 3rd 2008 at 10:30AM }

We've heard some quiet rumblings that Fatal Frame IV might be better if it had a little more action (the whole point of the series notwithstanding). While it's certainly not the voice of the majority, we can't help but wonder if there is a perception that some of the self-proclaimed hardest-core gamers won't be happy with anything short of a frag fest, which means that developers may be looking at either FPS games and other titles built around violence for the core contingent, casual and party games for everyone else, and the titles that are more deeply nuanced are being shelved. That could explain a few things, such as the disappearance of Disaster: Day of Crisis, and the lack of love for a few ports/sequels that would be absolutely appropriate for Wii gamers.

Tags: action, casual, disaster-day-of-crisis, fatal-frame-iv, hardcore

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Lord Bowser @ Aug 3rd 2008 11:09AM

I think Alisha is pissed off at the readership; I would be, too. So called 'hardcore' gamers only desire wanton violence like their 360 brethren. These base, kill games are the reason why games are looked upon as nothing more than juvenile pursuits, and gamers, the forever children.

Let's look at Madworld: looks great, yeah, I'll give you that. But in every preview I've read it's not the gameplay mechanics that are being talked up or Mikami's involvement, it's the amount of blood that dribbles on screen that is praised. I'm 22; I've moved past the stage when pixelated blood causes such amazement. It's not all that. The game itself seems to be violence that's violent simply for the sake of being violent. The thought process seems to be: gore is good, gore is what the hardcore want: Gore! No.

Non - as the French would say, I think.

No. I desire more than litres of red. Give me a reason to play that doesn't involve shooting a guy in the face. Does every conflict have to end with someone being curb stomped? When was the last time you curb stomped someone to resolve a solution? I've never done it. I would argue some one with such thoughts may be a psychopath. So, yes, we've agreed: people who play games of empty violence are psychopaths.

To be honest, I don't wish any ill will, but I want The Conduit to fail, and fail hard. I just don't want a deluge of mediocre shooters descending on the Wii. There's enough on the 360, already. Don't bring that redundancy to the Wii.

Frankly, Nintendo, and other third parties, shouldn't really listen to the hardcore. They are an insatiable lot always desiring the next big thing, without a clue what it is they actually want. Such people cannot be reasoned with. And as many on this site has mentioned: there is no fixed definition of hardcore. If my mother, for example, abhors video games but has played Tetris every day since it's release on the Game Boy, in 1990, wouldn't that make her hardcore? Am I disqualified from hardcoriness because I dislike the FPS with a passion? Is there a colon one must wear, a type of food, a place of residence, to truly be hardcore? No, the idea is absurd, and the idea of a hardcore gamer is absurd. It's just a tool, taken up by internet knights, used to distance themselves from the mainstream, like indie rock fans who immediately shout "sell out" once their favourite band hits the radio. It's shallow and false and base; we should fight this tyranny of the vocal minority; they do not speak for us.

DarkJesus @ Aug 3rd 2008 11:30AM

Wow. Genius.

lobotomies4free @ Aug 3rd 2008 12:57PM

I couldn't agree with you more.

I am sick of bloody and the dirty, edgy definition of "mature" that this generation seems to be embracing more and more. Not to mention it's just become so damn cliche and boring

SoshiKitai @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:02PM

Everytime you make a post, you sound more and more intelligent, LB.

Though, I wouldn't want The Conduit to fail hard... I'd like a few FPSs on the Wii. At least a good ol' 3rd party standard would be nice. Nothing wrong with the typical standards, as they do sell well and encourage a lot of developers to make more games.
... the only standards found on the Wii are minigames. And yeah, the Wii is known for innovation, but nothing wrong with a typical RPG coming out, or typical platformer coming out, or even typical FPS coming out.
Nothing wrong with another Fire Emblem that doesn't use the Wii controls, nothing wrong with another platformer that doesn't use a single waggle.
If perhaps that's all we got, and no motion controls appeared, then yes, I'd have a serious problem.
...but the fact is, we just get lots and lots of minigames and very few great games. I'd like to at least play a good typical RPG, Rouge, Tactic, FPS, SIM, or etc etc etc... as long as it had a little difference from the other, it's a nice time-killer between games. (that's what got me through the PS2)

...but hey, going to the carnival is a better time killer I suppose... but the carnival doesn't come everyday.

SoshiKitai @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:12PM

Oh and just to make sure: I understood your point was about violence and oh-so-typical running-gunning-manly-man-for-boys games.

...I was just saying I didn't want The Conduit to fail for the sake that it looks like an OK standard of an FPS game. And I'd prefer it if 3rd party developers realize that a standard game on the Wii sells.

Fiefdom @ Aug 3rd 2008 11:40AM

Does hard-core gaming necessarily revolve around titles focused on violence? I'm not entirely sure what the term is meant to describe, I think it has a broader reach than most people assume. There are multiple branches outside the realm of casual players. I cannot see many people who take gaming as a very light hobby pushing their way through Resident Evil (or Fatal Frame), practicing enough to get past the first couple levels in Ikaruga, beating an RPG or strategy game that requires at least forty hours to complete, or playing StarCraft every day on competitive ladders.

I consider myself a hard-core gamer in that I do not play many titles which are considered casual. I like shmups and I like long games with detailed storylines. I also like challenging games in general, but I'm not attracted to FPS titles or primarily violent games. I was iffy about playing Resident Evil 4 and I own Halo only because I found the PC version for less than $10 at a Wal-Mart and I figured that I should at least give it a try. I'd much prefer to play Fire Emblem or a visual novel over a GTA game.

I think some people don't like the pace of Fatal Frame not because of any kind of elitism in regard to their gaming interests, but because they are genuinely not interested in slower games. I'm under the impression that there a number of people who played and loved Resident Evil 4 but haven't expressed much of an interest in playing any of the earlier Resident Evil titles. I'm sure there's plenty of people who would prefer Resident Evil 5 over Fatal Frame just there are sure to be many people who feel the opposite (I'm a part of this latter group, even though I have a PS3 I'll opt for Valkyria Chonicles over Resident Evil 5). There's a lot of different interests between gamers. A lot of my friends have no idea what the majority of games on my game shelf are (games from Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Key, some of Namco's Tales series, etcetera) just as I'm unfamiliar with many of their favored games (Hitman, Elder Scrolls, Splinter Cell, and some other titles I can't remember the names of). You couldn't accurately refer to any of us casual gamers despite the huge gap in our interests.

I don't see a problem with a number of people not liking games such as Fatal Frame as long as it doesn't result in those kinds of games being canceled. I'm most probably a kind of minority (I don't think Nippon Ichi's titles sell as well as Bungie's), but there's enough people who share my interests to make these markets perfectly viable (ignoring the visual novels, haha). I was looking forward to learning more about Day of Disaster, I'm content with Fatal Frame IV.

Lord Bowser @ Aug 3rd 2008 11:49AM

"I consider myself a hard-core gamer in that I do not play many titles which are considered casual. I like shmups and I like long games with detailed storylines."

Shoot em ups tend to have the lowest barrier of entry in all of gaming. Mario and Sonic Olympics is probably more complicated than most shoot em ups.

Fiefdom @ Aug 3rd 2008 12:17PM

Have you ever played Ikaruga, or any other decent shmup? The mechanics are generally simple but the gameplay itself is not. Tennis, golf, and many other sports have very simple rules but are not inherently easy to play well. You underestimate the genre as much as you are biased against FPS games.

Has anyone else noticed that comments seem to disappear and reappear randomly upon refreshing the page? I have to post multiple times before a comment shows up and I'm unsure as to whether the fault is at my end or that of the website.

FYIan @ Aug 3rd 2008 2:45PM

This is how I tend to define the casual, core, hardcore lines:

You have casual gamers, who use a console like a toy, and play only easy-entry games. Liking casual games doesn't automatically make you a casual gamer, but playing them exclusively does.

Then you have the "core," which consists of just about anyone that would claim that they play video games. These people buy and play just about any type of game, from Madden to Halo to No More Heroes.

Then you have the "hard core" gamers, who buy the same games as everyone else, but then play the crap out of them to perfect their skill and/or explore the game 100% and max out their characters.

To me, its not so much the type of game that defines the player, but the amount of time and/or effort they put into the game. Hell, I would call anyone that maxed their numbers in Wii Sports a hard core gamer. I will grant that some games "max out" faster than others, though.

samfish @ Aug 3rd 2008 3:36PM

"Shoot em ups tend to have the lowest barrier of entry in all of gaming."

In terms of understanding how to play, yes. In terms or skill and actually playing well, you'd have to be an idiot to suggest otherwise.

Roto13 @ Aug 3rd 2008 11:44AM

I think a lot of games these days could use more action and less story. And no, that doesn't mean cutscenes of stuff exploding. It's a game for Christ's sake. Let me play it.

Alisha Karabinus @ Aug 3rd 2008 9:35PM

I actually agree with this. There've been a LOT of good responses today, but this is a smaller point and I think it's one that's worth looking more deeply at. Long cutscenes are nice and all, but some games really overuse them, and it's not like there's a strong story... just a bunch of pretty images. Nice and all, but I agree -- let me play the game.

Zachary @ Aug 4th 2008 12:06AM

That's what's great about Super Mario Galaxy. The long library scenes add lots of depth to the game, but can be skipped entirely if you just want to play.

Still, the game has an actual story to play through without many cutscenes at all (mostly just boss intros).

Mr Khan @ Aug 3rd 2008 12:44PM

It's good to see something like this addressed

I think that this issue is something relevant to the core DEMOGRAPHIC, as opposed the actual core GAMER. It may be splitting hairs, but a core gamer is someone who's willing to try anything once, and values games for their diversity

The core demographic, however, is that 15-35 yr old male who tends to want what was popular when they were young: Either '80's era grim & gritty, or '90's era over-the-top violence, screaming metal guitar, and speed.

The tastes of the core demographic are more marketable than that of the core gamer. As the core gamer is a much smaller breed that falls within that demographic, but also includes females.

The big media outlets ultimately tend to be biased towards the core demographic as opposed to the proper core gamer, which is why you see them try to push and promote games like Gears and GTA, which are good in their own right, but also have that key appeal, but also games like Kane and Lynch, which are not good in their own right, but still have that appeal

Fatal Frame was never a horror game that appealed to the core demographic. Resident Evil is at the top of that list. The kind of horror that Fatal Frame pushes would do well as a movie, much in the vein of Japanese-based horror flicks like "Shutter" or "The Ring." A series not known at all for being slasher-horror, but these movies, like Fatal Frame, deal out a different kind of scary that appeals not only to core gamers, but also to hardcore horror fans, who may or may not be gamers

manyquestions @ Aug 4th 2008 6:54PM

Trying to standardize that gamer terminology, I see. :)

Seriously though, I think you're right about the misunderstood differential between core gamers and core demographic. . . ers. . . .

These core demographic people who like to think of themselves as true core gamers tend to be a MUCH louder group than the rest of us combined, which gets to the developers, whose primary concern is making money, and everything goes downhill from there. Games that would normally do just fine in sales if they're well-made are shoved aside in favor of less-artistically mass-producing the same exact game 300 times with different texture maps because it's the only game that the ridiculously loud core demographic is capable of playing.

So, any suggestions on how to drown them out?

sn1per @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:01PM

I don't mind FPS games, but I've noticed that there's nearly zero emphasis on story anymore. It's gotten to the point where every FPS that comes out is either set in WWII or involves some sort of alien invasion.

Even when a violent game *does* have a good story, that aspect of the game is completely overlooked. Take GTA IV for example: the game had a pretty decent story, and that's what kept me interested enough to finish it. But when you look at the praise it receives online, you'd think the game was just a giant gorefest. Even No More Heroes only gets recognition for how bloody it was. No one talks about the story, which again, was the only reason I finished the game.

All that said, I don't want The Conduit to fail, for two reasons: first, if a game that tries to bring good graphics to the Wii fails, I feel like developers would completely stop trying in the visuals department, and while graphics don't make a game, better graphics are always nice. Second, I really think that a properly-designed FPS using the Wii remote would make the genre a lot more fun to play, and hopefully if The Conduit can successfully combine FPS with the Wii's control scheme, other companies could do same with other genres.

Al3xand3r @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:29PM

Eh, there's no need to bash specific titles you haven't even played to make a point about maturity.

As I said in the last thread about Mad World, you see violence and gore, I see style and fun. It hopefully has more depth but so far it appears like the evolution of the side scrolling beat em up (Double Dragon) into 3D, and all the different ways he kills people with at least show there's more variety than a punch and a kick like such games usually have. So yes, it does look good and promising, even if it's bloody and gory.

Not every game has to be Panzer Dragoon Saga, even if that's my most favorite title. Games were created for fun and entertainment anyway, it's good to see them expand in the last years but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have games that are just meant to be fun and not thought provoking anymore. That would be a bit too serious to be called a game, do you only watch the news, documentaries and historical movies on TV or do you only read Dostoevsky?

As for how the media react to Mad World and that they feel the need to only make note of the blood and guts and not the gameplay, that would be their fault not the games.

I also wouldn't call every FPS ever made a mindless fragfest, I think Metroid Prime series is a good example of a FPS that is basically an explorative action adventure despite the perspective. Half-Life felt similar all those years ago. But it's not like other FPS which are only made for fun should be shunned either, COD4 is damn fun and that's the whole point.

The bottomline is, you can feel free to call the self proclaimed hardcore gamers idiots when they're the reason games like Okami, Ico, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, and many others are commercial failures, but don't blame other quality games which serve their goals just fine and shouldn't be required to do more to be considered worthy or quality.

Lord Bowser @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:35PM

Prince Myshkin was well too naive for my liking, it irked me.

vidGuy @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:31PM

I keep this short: 'hardcore' is just as meaningless as 133t is to me. The gamers who say they are all hardcore are like the wannabe punks and emos, just joining a movement because it is trendy. Hardcore games are not full of blood and guts or topless women. They don't need to have fast cars or bone-crunching sports injuries. Hardcore games are those that appeal to only a small majority of intense gamers: WoW, Final Fantasy, LoZ, etc. They take an investment of time to beat, involve a cult following, and are about playing the game, not showing all your friends that you own it.

Personally, I'm glad that the Wii strikes a balance between family games and Nintendo's hardcore franchises. I've got a 360 for sports and FPS titles, Nintendo handles all the rest.

Al3xand3r @ Aug 3rd 2008 1:47PM

Uh... I don't want to start an off topic debate here but you at least can't say WoW is part of a "small" majority... That thing has become as mainstream as the sims, people who never played video games are totally lost in WoW...

Also, the inclusion or non inclusion of blood and guts and topless chicks has nothing to do with hardcore gaming, it can be hardcore with or without and it can't be hardcore just with or without... Blaming everything that includes one or the other is silly. Would Virtua Fighter somehow lose its depth of gameplay if they decided to add bigger jiggly boobs to attract a bigger audience like Soul Calibur? I think not. It would sure make the chicks look even cheaper but it wouldn't make it less hardcore as a game, those noobs who just played it for the boobs would still get their ass kicked by any competent dedicated hardcore gamer...

Also let's not be quick to blame the disappearance of Day of Crisis, the game was recently confirmed as "delayed" maybe it simply sucked ass and they decided to develop it further, or from scratch, at some point in order to provide a product worthy of Nintendo's quality seal (metaphorically speaking, not that sticker they used to have).

SoshiKitai @ Aug 3rd 2008 4:13PM

I understand that Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy is just part of a small majority when compared to the big picture, as only the fans stick to the games 100% of the way.
...but WoW isn't small as its demographic doesn't just stick to a normal genre of gamers. Even people who thought they'd hate WoW loved it. ...even SciFi lovers liked WoW once they played it. Even "jocks" and "norms" loved WoW as much as the common "nerd".

It's almost open to everyone to play it. Not too complicated for them when they start.

...but WoW is the biggest of the MMORPGs... and as being King of MMORPGs, they give the strongest effect of "turning you into a sickly hermit". ...and it's true for everyone, not just the nerds.

samfish @ Aug 3rd 2008 3:55PM

There's undeniably a contingent of Wii owners who wish that they in fact owned a PS360, judging by the kind of games they want to see on the Wii. Some of it is also just fanboyism/console defense force mentality, bashing games that they'd otherwise be thrilled to say are coming out on their console (See: former360/FFXII hate or former PS3/Bioshock hate).
I've never played a Fatal Frame game. As a matter of fact, I had never even HEARD of the series before this one. I'm looking forward to trying it, even though I suspect this kind of game isn't up my alley.

More to the point, there is definitely a sizeable chunk of gamers out there who only want to play shooters like Halo, COD or either GOW acronymed game.
That's not good because we're already to the point where development costs have tripled on the HD systems. It encourages playing it safe by sticking to old franchises and what works...which is bad for the industry as a whole, as it prevents newer gamers from coming in.

Overall, the Wii really has a chance to be the savior of gaming, in many respects, but reintroducing old genres, reating new ones and improving current ones. It's such a shame, however, to see no one but Nintendo (and Capcom, EA and Sega to a lesser extent) is really going out and trying/pushing those new things.

SoshiKitai @ Aug 3rd 2008 4:22PM

I just want more FPSs on the Wii... for its point-and-click aspect.
Yeah, it'd be nice to see more creative ones, but it'd be nice to see any at all as well.
... rail-FPSers are nice, but I really liked the few normal-FPSs that were out for the Wii. I'd just like a little more of 'em. If they release a batch of unique FPSers I'd be thrilled, but I'd doubt that they could keep dishing them out without having to wait a whole year for another one.
T_T I'd just like more good games on the Wii, even if they're standard types. I have a "PS360", but I love my Wii more. I just wish I'd have more to play on it...
And yeah, the whole "alien invasion"-thing is a bit overdone (almost to the point of WW2 games) , but as long as it's friggin' done right I can ignore that it copied from other series... because it's on the Wii! My beloved Wii!
I like shooting with my Wii remote. It's fun.
...my only complaint (not so much a complaint, just that I think it's funny) about the Conduit is the silly sci-fi sound-effects... PEW~ PEW~!

... I'm surprised that you haven't heard of the Fatal Frame series... though obviously not as famous as the Resident Evil series, it was up there in the "horror survival" genre.

SoshiKitai @ Aug 3rd 2008 4:24PM

A full adventure of Link's Crossbow Training would be nice, though.

samfish @ Aug 3rd 2008 6:28PM

I should point out that I'm not saying everyone who wants FPSs on the Wii wishes they owned a PS3 or 360. Just that there are people who very clearly think that those are the only games worth playing and that, because of the lack of "hardcore" games, they have an axe to grind with the Wii.

Personally, I'm not even sure it's possible to have a new, successful FPS franchise on any console at this point unless it does something COMPLETELY different like that game EA is making whose name I can't remember now.
Like you said, WWII and sci fi themes are played out. The SDF latched onto Resistance and Killzone and the MSDF has a litany of games to choose from...which is why I fear that The Conduit is going to fail on the Wii. Might do OK if Nintendo publishes it themselves (because Nintendo actually promotes their games), but otherwise I think it's got an uphill battle.
Shooters have NEVER really done well with Nintendo's base audience, though. From what I've noticed, hardcore Nintendo fans just aren't big fans of shooters in general...including Metroid.
So when a "hardcore" shooter like the Conduit is announced, it always TO ME feels like the excitement is is large part from the fanboys trumpeting their cool new game that they might not even purchase. Not to say that people aren't legitimately excited for The Conduit, mind you, but that's just the impression that I get.

James @ Aug 3rd 2008 10:45PM

The definition of Hardcore seems to have changed. When I was young I was hardcore because I played lots of different types of games and I played them a lot. Now I'm not hardcore because I don't love Halo. I always thought Halo was a casual game. I only ever really met casual gamers playing it.
Hardcore now seems to mean people who hate games and hate new things. I'm happy I don't count as hardcore these days. I want everything. I want Wii fit and I want Half life. I want brightly coloured kirbys and graphically detailed heroes.
I. Want. Everything.

LilWiz @ Aug 3rd 2008 10:58PM

First !!!

Photoshopped !!!

The I-something or other !!!

Sorry....just can't remember the last time I read such a long thread without someone shouting one of those out. This has to be one of the best discussions I have ever read in a comments section. All responses seem well though out, people are stating their OPINIONS and no one is bashing them and the content is very thought provoking. Keep up the good work all....maybe a few of the names we see down here in the comments section should be posting some articles of their own. Thank you for an enjoyable read.

zchry @ Aug 3rd 2008 11:37PM

To be honest, Samfish, I consider myself a hardcore Nintendo fan. Not a hardcore gamer, as I could care less about some "hardcore" games, but I really love Nintendo.

I mean, I check this fansite multiple times a day. I go to Nintendo's site. I buy at least one new game every time Nintendo puts out a couple.

But I honestly don't like Metroid. I don't like FPSs at all. I'm that guy you're talking about, the quintessential Nintendo fan who hates shootem ups.

Still, I love Nintendo. I respect Metroid as a major franchise. It's the same with Halo. I don't care for them one bit, but I won't judge someone who does. The Wii could use a few, I think, but not a lot, and not if they prevent other types of games from coming to the Wii as well.

In other words, I'd welcome a few FPSs, but I don't want them running rampant like they do on the 360 (and like waggle mini-games do on the Wii).

We also need more RPGs, puzzle games, and horror games such as Fatal Frame.

I for one don't like to be scared. I'm a wuss and I know it. I won't pick up Fatal Frame with a ten foot pole. It doesn't mean it's not a great game. It probably is. I've never heard of the franchise either, so I'm not sure. But does the Wii need/deserve a game like Fatal Frame? Hell yes it does.

The Wii needs more variety. It needs more games that aren't Wii Sports clones. It needs Fatal Frame. It really does. They shouldn't change it, I don't think. Someone has to enjoy it how it is. I don't want something as creative as it looks being turned into another Doom knockoff.

But the Wii does need a Doom knockoff or two, all the same. It'll attract those gamers that like to play those kinds of games and those kinds of games only. It'll help people stop whining that the Wii is a system for kids and grannies.

I for one want the Conduit to succeed with flying colors. I probably won't buy it, as I don't like FPSs. But I'll check it out. If it looks different, I may buy it. But the Wii needs the Conduit. It needs that variety. It really needs the graphics.

I hope that's all I need to say. The Wii is a great system, it just needs more good games out there, no matter what type they are. I think Fatal Frame and the Conduit are going to help with that. But so will Wii Music. Anything fresh, anything different is good right about now.

Zachary @ Aug 4th 2008 12:05AM

Honestly, I don't see how first-person shooters are "hardcore."

I've played Halo at my cousin's and it instantly bored me. I gave it a chance, though. I really did. I've played all three of them now.

Isn't hardcore supposed to entail actual depth in games? Entertainment value? Story? I consider any Zelda game more hardcore than some of that crap.

Games should make you think. Games should make you feel. Games should make you have fun.

Halo and all of the other trash like it doesn't do any of that. It makes you run around like a chicken with its head cut off. That's not hardcore. That's not mature. That's not even fun.

Zachary @ Aug 4th 2008 12:06AM

What he means about blood, guts, and topless women is that most "hardcore" gamers only play games with those elements. They consider that "hardcore" and that's the only requirement for them.

I think he fully understands that that's not what makes a game hardcore. I think that was the point. I don't think you got it, Al3xand3r.

Al3xand3r @ Aug 4th 2008 10:05AM

He was being negative about Mad World, acting like it's only blood it has to offer, I have more faith in the developers and hope it will offer more, just like Killer 7 and No More Heroes, which is why I wrote those responses. I understand his overall point and agree with it, what I was against was ripping into particular games we have yet to play, like Mad World.

TWOO DEE @ Aug 4th 2008 1:29PM

The FPS genre isn't hardcore, in any regard? Really?

Claiming that COD4, for example, doesn't require skill, thought, is not fun or engaging is down right ludicrous.

I believe the term 'hardcore gamer' only applies to the dudes on the net, checking up on videogame blogs and other game related sites.

I'd like to kick it old school and just refer to myself as a 'big gamer.' :P

ChromeAlchemist @ Aug 4th 2008 3:33PM

i have about 7 friends who have an 360. they all have CoD, halo, and other fps. they do not own a single rpg, strategy game or adventure game, and wouldnt be caught dead owning one (one even said final fantasy was garbage, he nearly lost his life that day ;-) )

unless there are many layers to the definition 'hardcore gamer' (which i dont even believe in, and this is why http://malstrom.50webs.com/birdman.html ) i dont consider them to be hardcore, because if i were forced to define a hardcore gamer, a hardcore gamer is someone who plays a variety of games and plays them extensively, not just fps, because fps is prob one of the most mainstream and 'casual' kind of titles on the planet, even if i love them to no end, because no matter the story, u can pick up an fps after god knows how many months and jump straight into it with no deep thought or need to grab your bearings.

they tell me they are buying a 360, and i ask them if they are buying mass effect or anything other than an fps or a racing game, and they stare at me blankly. so if they are 'hardcore gamers', then what the hell am I?