Retailers hoping for R4 ban in UK
by Candace Savino 
{ Jul 22nd 2008 at 3:30PM }
Retailers in the UK are losing sleep over DS flash carts, and that's turning them into big old grumps. As you probably know, flash carts not only offer interesting homebrew opportunities, but they also provide owners with the means to pirate games. Piracy has been cutting into DS software sales, and retailers? They're not very happy.The cart under attack is, of course, the R4DS -- it is the most mainstream one, after all. Retailers don't want R4s to be sold anymore, and are calling for a UK ban on the product. SimplyGames.com has already pulled the flash card from its site after a "conversation with Nintendo." (As far as we can tell, the site isn't selling alternative carts, either.)
We know what you're thinking -- the R4 isn't the only piracy option out there. Yet, it's likely that other flash cards will find themselves on the chopping block, too. A nationwide ban on the R4 and others probably won't happen, though, and even if it does, many will just turn to imports.
Being the good souls that we are, we're assuming that most of you aren't pirates and can sympathize with suffering retailers. Still, do you think that warrants a ban on flash carts?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Almadi @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:00PM
Redesign the DS, add internal memory, make demos available...or shut up.
aj @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:10PM
Stop pirating games....or shut up.
No, seriously. It says right inside the booklet of every single NDS game that you do not have permission to make back up copies, and that is also why every company lists an address you can send your game into for repair or replacement if it ever breaks. So it's a non-issue. It's not like music or movies where there is some ambiguity.
Further, if flash cards eat into sales, how likely do you think a re-design will be for an audience that isn't going to pay for anything anyway? This isn't voting with your wallet, it's stealing.
Almadi @ Jul 22nd 2008 5:19PM
I don't have an R4, I only buy 1 game every month or two, usually 6 months after release, discounted by %20-40, based on 100 reviews or so. And even then I may end up with a crap game. That is why I am frustrated with the way Nintendo is ignoring the fact that not providing demos is a likely reason for the R4 spreading.
Same logic applies to iTunes, if I am intrested in a song, I listen to the 30 second demo, then I buy it.
Jamar @ Jul 23rd 2008 3:02AM
"and that is also why every company lists an address you can send your game into for repair or replacement if it ever breaks"
Pokemon cartridge (pre-DS)+dead battery=no support (they said it was my fault and refused to do anything because of something or other). I think that was about the time I grabbed a SuperCard to use instead. Haven't looked back.
Jamar @ Jul 23rd 2008 3:02AM
"and that is also why every company lists an address you can send your game into for repair or replacement if it ever breaks"
Pokemon cartridge (pre-DS)+dead battery=no support (they said it was my fault and refused to do anything because of something or other). I think that was about the time I grabbed a SuperCard to use instead. Haven't looked back.
Phantom @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:06PM
Hmm , they shouldn't be banned , homebrew is completly legal , and piracy can be stopped with better anti-piracy coding or whatever. I think they should call in a PRO , Bring in SONY(NOBODY , to this day , has cracked the PS3 game code) . Oh wait , well maybe they could work something out , I would love to see a PlaysytationDS .
aj @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:12PM
"(NOBODY , to this day , has cracked the PS3 game code)"
Nothing is uncrackable. It will be broken, if it isn't already.
Phantom @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:14PM
But damn it's a good code , the 360s has been cracked for a while now .
Mike @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:20PM
PS3 is also the most "open" console in existence, which does lower the desire to gain full access to the hardware somewhat. Still, it's just a matter of finding one flaw somewhere in the PS3 to gain that access. Once you get that far, it's just a matter of time before pirated games can be played.
It's also worth noting cartridges capable of only running homebrew exist. So, if one doesn't care about piracy the banning of the R4, M3, Cylclo, etc, shouldn't be a problem.
Mike @ Jul 22nd 2008 4:24PM
The PS3 is the most "open" console in existence which does lower the desire to crack it. Still it's just a matter of finding one security flaw to gain full access to the machine.
Also, it's worth noting cartridges that only run homebrew do exist. If one truly didn't care about piracy the ban on the R4 wouldn't be a problem.
Patrick @ Jul 23rd 2008 1:10AM
I personally am on the fence. I love my M3DS Real card. I don't pirate games per se. I buy them, then back them up on the cart so I don't have to carry a bunch of games with me or switch out all the time. I still have paid the developers but I now have my games in one cart. Also, it makes it possible to play some really great home brew. Flick book eats up as much time as any other game.
On the other hand, piracy costs the developers money. That cheats us in the long run.
Morning Toast @ Jul 22nd 2008 5:02PM
I'm of the homebrew mind and see the DS not only as a great gaming device but great utility device too. With the R4 I've been able to turn my DS into a PDA that I actually use at work for note taking and organizing.
http://www.morningtoast.com/index.php/2008/07/my-ds-pda-challenge/
I agree that the solution should be more on the software side of things. Just build some sort of blocker into the games to detect a flash cart or whatever. I'm sure the homebrewers are a minority, but if allowing development sells more DS units (and accessories), why hurt those numbers?
Off-the-shelf DS games are typically cheaper anyway, plus if you can get free apps/games via homebrew, paying for a published game at the store is far more justified. The DS offers great value and banning flash carts will kill a lot of that. If it all happens I'm at least glad I got my flash carts now and won't have to search the jungles of inner China to find an R4.
dave @ Jul 22nd 2008 5:22PM
But why stop with the r4? I need a computer to transfer my pirated ds games on to my r4 so ban computers. And the web lets me find pirated ds games, so shut down the web.
Hasn't anybody learned anything from the music and movie industry? Piracy will happen no matter what a company does to prevent it. The only thing accomplished by trying to stop piracy is harming the people that actually pay.
No one can argue that piracy is hurting the ds. Just look at the rate at which it sells. And please don't argue this point by saying that companies should be able to do whatever it takes to maximize profit.
pakkman781 @ Jul 22nd 2008 5:37PM
But DS homebrew is great! StillAliveDS, AToW, Warcraft Tower Defense, so many good games!
Maybe they should ban retailers instead :P
Eleniel @ Jul 22nd 2008 7:48PM
Digital game distribution, for serious.
SmileyDude @ Jul 22nd 2008 6:41PM
stop pirating games....or shut up.
No, seriously. It says right inside the booklet of every single NDS game that you do not have permission to make back up copies, and that is also why every company lists an address you can send your game into for repair or replacement if it ever breaks. So it's a non-issue. It's not like music or movies where there is some ambiguity.
Wanted to reply to this directly, but the forum doesn't allow replying to replies apparently...
This isn't as cut and dry as you say -- by your logic, anyone how copies a game they legally own (i.e, they have a legit physical copy) to a R4 is committing piracy. And you say this because Nintendo tells you that you are not allowed to make a backup copy.
Guess what bud, the same reasoning applies to music and movies as well -- the RIAA & MPAA will also tell you that you are not allowed to make backup copies. With CDs and DVDs, they even go as far as saying the media is indestructible and that you don't *need* a backup copy (doesn't that sound familiar?)
The company is free to say all kinds of things about how their product can and can't be used. Some of these are attempts to have a legal defense if you do something stupid with it, the others are things that they just don't match up with their own goals. Backups usually fall into that latter category.
For you to really know if it's legal or not (and it has nothing to do with Nintendo saying NO), you have to know the laws that apply to you for where you live. This also includes previous decisions in the judicial side, like the Sony vs Universal case (aka The Betamax case) and others that apply.
For the record, I do own a R4 -- I also own 45 real DS games. These games are stored safely on my bookshelf at home while my R4 contains copies of the games for use. I started doing this after a friend of mine lost a small box (about 10) of games on an airplane. The thought of leaving 45 DS games in a little box someplace made me quite sick. Other than that, the R4 is used for some homebrew -- I do have all the hardware to make a backup copy of my game without having to resort to downloading warez.
Are you telling me that what I am doing is fundamentally different than keeping all of my music on my iPod and therefore should be illegal? Even if the law is on my side otherwise, should it be illegal because Nintendo says backups aren't necessary and you can't do it because we say so?
supa_s @ Jul 23rd 2008 1:49AM
I've got an R4 and I download ROMS to check out games. If they're good, I'll buy them. I've got over 50 DS games lying around my room. With so many games coming out, you gotta distinguish between the good and bad games and that's where my R4 comes in.
Adam York @ Jul 23rd 2008 4:56AM
The tendancy to focus on whther 'backing up' games is morally wrong or not clouds the issue here... namely that whilst piracy is illegal, owning the hardware to carry it out is not.
It's like drugs illegal but crack pipes and bongs are not...
The thing is, that Nintendo and other producers will put pressure on smaller businesses to stop stocking these items, despite the legality of them. Really, if Nintendo wanted them stopped it should take the manufacturers to court.
Lol @ Jul 23rd 2008 9:44AM
Although Piracy is a pain in the butt, I do agree with people who are saying Demos should be made, it's the most logical choice, I personally would like to test out any game I play before I buy. This is the case with the PC, PSP, consoles etc. B
foosnark @ Jul 23rd 2008 11:58AM
Homebrew and openness for the win.
Anti-piracy should not mean crippling devices, stifling innovation, and punishing honest users.
I will admit, I have downloaded exactly one "pirated" ROM -- because I was mildly curious and there was no demo available.
I bought a legit copy the next day... and it's not something I ever would have bought to find out whether I liked it.