Lucasarts: Adventure games might come back, DS cart size too small for ports
With the DS being the most loved gaming system in the galaxy, one might think that it's the perfect platform for a graphic adventure title. From a business standpoint, it's a no-brainer, but the stylus and touch-screen also provide the perfect control scheme for titles in this genre. Not only do we, but the fine folks at Eurogamer also, think that bringing old adventure titles to the DS would be a very good thing. Lucasarts shot down our hopes, however."The cart size of the DS makes it impossible to put out ports of any of our old graphic adventures," claims assistant producer Jeffrey Gullett. "There's literally not enough room on those carts to put the games out." Kind of an odd answer, when you think about the size of older adventure titles such as The Secret of Monkey Island.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
pas @ Jun 2nd 2008 12:40PM
Well, I heard the DS could technically support up to 4 Gigabyte of Data...
If Nintendo wished to they could always bring out a decent card size.
DS Cards are using similar technologie than SD Cards, so it should be possible technically, and moneywise.
Danny @ Jun 6th 2008 9:03AM
That's 4 Gigabits, not gigabytes. So that maximum size is 512mb. Should still be plenty though for games that used to ship on a handful of floppies.
pas @ Jun 2nd 2008 12:40PM
BTW: I don't believe them, cause Runaway - Dream of a Turtel, a FULL FLEGED PC GAME was ported to DS without loss of content...
elend @ Jun 2nd 2008 12:48PM
Yeah, can't believe that either. I just think they don't want to do adventures anymore. They are sick of them maybe.
Puddles @ Jun 2nd 2008 12:56PM
The original versions of Monkey Island 1 and 2 are 4.6 MB and 10.2 MB respectively. I know that some DS carts are 128 MB.
pas @ Jun 2nd 2008 1:01PM
there are even some that are 256 Megabyte, I really think that there might be more possible, 512 Megabyte the least *hopes*
jsutcliffe @ Jun 2nd 2008 12:57PM
Don't forget that many of the old adventures (stopping just before Full Throttle, I think) can be played on ScummVM DS. The limitation cited by the guy making ScummVM DS isn't cart size, but RAM.
Eleniel @ Jun 2nd 2008 10:36PM
You're exactly right. I'm calling bullcrap on this one.
Safiel @ Jun 2nd 2008 1:05PM
Sounds like they are either trying to do something really crazy graphics wise in their ports, or they are being lazy. I think I know where I'd place my bets.
It reminds me of nippon ichi saying that they could hardly get disgaea 3 to run right with the power of the ps3 (ie, not drop frames), just because you don't have the knowledge/time/money to do something doesn't mean it can't be done.
Sean @ Jun 2nd 2008 1:08PM
The specs escape me at the moment but even Full Throttle didn't require THAT high end of a system to play. I'm sure the DS can match the specs.
I find it hard to believe RAM is the issue 'cos I'd bet the DS has more RAM then your average mid-to-late 90s PC did. I imagine most of the size of theses games comes from the music and voice overs.
iofthestorm @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:39PM
The DS has 4MB of RAM, and I don't think any computers in the mid-to-late nineties would have anywhere near that little RAM. My dad's old 486 has 8MB of RAM.
Sean @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:28PM
Sweet jesus - 4mbs of RAM? That's pretty sad.
I still have some of our old 4mb sticks floating around. I remember my dad helping me to get Sam and Max run in DOS with music. What fun.
But yeah, a quick glimpse reveals that Sam & Max Hit the Road only needs 4mb of RAM. Full Throttle is 8mb. And Grim Fandango is a whopping 32mb.
Seriously, though, Nintendo needs to not be so damn cheap. Up the RAM!
Mertruve @ Jun 3rd 2008 1:31PM
There's a RAM expansion for Slot-2.
SleepingDragon @ Jun 2nd 2008 1:43PM
Well, they could always issue a game on 2 CARTS! I mean, movies and other video come in 2 CD Sets, why not put a particularly large game split on 2 carts? Hasn't been done b4, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.
jsutcliffe @ Jun 2nd 2008 2:04PM
Well, the DS has no internal space for saving games, so retaining game progress when switching carts might not work. That said, the ds rom wifi download tool* allows you to change carts (from your flash cart to the cart you want to back up).
However, I can just imagine what Squenix would charge if they started putting out two-cart games. Ouch. ;)
* all above board - lets you copy your legally-purchased games onto a flash cart so you can have them all in one spot
chispito @ Jun 2nd 2008 2:35PM
You can switch cards while the power is on and a program is running. This is actually required to make your own ROM dumps with a flash card.
A game could theoretically reach a certain point, load save info into memory, and then have the carts switched and pick up the game at a further point, I believe. Add in even a modest sized flash expansion in slot 2 and it would be incredibly easy.
But manufacturing two smaller carts would almost by necessity cost more than manufacturing one larger cart.
Ben Combee @ Jun 2nd 2008 3:18PM
The DS has 4MB of RAM, so that's comparable to early Windows systems and all of the DOS systems. The main 66MHz ARM chip is roughly equivalent to a 33MHz 486 without the math coprocessor, although a lot depends on how the cache is used. The largest cartridge is about 256MB (or 2048 megabits), so games that were significantly smaller than a CD can be ported. With compressed music, you could do Loom or either of the first two Monkey Island games pretty well, IMO.
J.K. @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:01PM
Factually that's a bold faced lie on Lucasarts part saying the DS cards are too small. All their old text 'SCUMM' engine adventure games took no more than around 5 floppy disks (1.44MByte a piece) and if you got into the talkies those were around 150-200MB a pop. 1Gbit card = 128MB and mind you this is the old DOS day stuff with poor compression, they used MONSTER.SOU(their own madeup file) files that just jammed all the body of the game into a master file. There's NO reason it can't be compressed in original form at all. Furthermore, google up the SCUMMVM website, you'll see that 'talkie' versions of things like Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis DO work and very well on the NDS right now using Lucasarts own old files with their frontend.
It's crap I tell you, got a better story Lucas?
Husky @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:21PM
There's no room? One word: ScummvmDS.
ViRGE @ Jun 2nd 2008 9:02PM
For everyone commenting on the amount of RAM the DS has, keep in mind that it's designed not to need vast amounts of the stuff. Large quantities of RAM are necessary on a PC/disk-based-console because the time to access content on any kind of disk is in the milliseconds, upwards of 100ms (1/10th of a second) if it's a CD/DVD. As such, you need to copy your entire working set (all audio, art assets, etc) to the RAM so that you can access it in a timely manner.
With a cartridge based system, you can access assets at speeds close to that of RAM. Reading off of a ROM is very, very fast (on the order of nanoseconds). Because of that, you don't need to load assets in RAM any longer, meaning you need much less RAM; everything you need you can just pull from the cartridge when you need it. The only use for RAM at this point is storing dynamic data such as the gamestate, the framebuffer, and any variables you need. 4MB still isn't a lot in this respect, but it's enough for a system of the DS's capabilities.
Brent @ Jun 3rd 2008 12:15AM
With an lame-compressed MP3 file for speech, I'm playing Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis on ScummVM DS, and the total file size is 90 MB. So, you know what LucasArts? Keep your ports, I'll keep my ScummVM DS.
Edo @ Jun 3rd 2008 4:44AM
http://scummvm.drunkencoders.com/
Hyre @ Jun 3rd 2008 8:37AM
My take on this is that while there is plenty of room for, say, one full-fledged port per cart, Lucasarts would want to do a collection of ports with bonus features or perhaps the entire set on one cart so that we wouldn't just be buying the same old game. Then again, Lucasarts could have their heads on backwards and be reciting Star Wars dialogue in reversed Latin for all I know. Probably neither, but it's fun to think about.
rikki @ Jun 3rd 2008 9:16AM
What's really being said in that article sounds a little more like this to me
"According to the guy who pays me, trying to port the old adventure games somewhere (especially to the DS) is not worth the development cost to our company. We're trying for a compilation of some form, but Lego Insert-Franchise-Here and Star Wars games are so profitable that we can't pull any developers from those projects. Nor can we expect any adventure games in the near future, because they won't make the company enough money in comparison."
"We may cash in on nostalgia and the old guard at some later date, though."
John H. @ Jun 5th 2008 1:33PM
Let's put this one to rest.
There is really no reason an experienced DS developer couldn't make the likes of Sam & Max work on the DS. Cart sizes can be surprisingly large, and access speed, while not ROM-quick, is still much greater than from floppy or CD, AND the system doesn't have to constantly keep an operating system in memory, AND the DS's lower screen resolution means graphics can be downsampled, further saving memory. Even Grim Fandango would probably work on the DS; in fact, it might work better than the later 2D adventures, seeing how low-poly its models were. Mario 64 was an early DS port, after all.
But Lucasarts wouldn't want to use an experienced developer for this. They'd cut corners ruthlessly. It's not like the adventure guys still work for them, after all.
Danny @ Jun 6th 2008 10:07AM
I hope someone can get The Dig to work via Scummvm. The DS doesn't have enough RAM apparently.
Matdredalia @ Jun 7th 2008 5:36AM
Too bad they're full of crap. Someone made a SCUM emulator for the DS, and I've already played Maniac Mansion II on my DS, and it fit just fine on my 2 gigabyte R4 cartridge, even with all the freakin' other stuff I have on there.
It'd fit, they just don't want to.