90% of DS owners are pirates? Not bloody likely!
by Eric Caoili 
{ Jan 31st 2008 at 11:15AM }
In a recent chat with Scotland's The Sunday Post, John Hillier of the ELSPA (Entertainment & Leisure Software Publishers Association) warns retailers that the R4, a popular DS flashcart capable of running pirated and unauthorized software, could ruin businesses and the gaming industry. In the scaremongering piece, Mr. Hiller throws out an unsourced statistic: "In America it's thought 90 per cent of Nintendo DS users are playing pirated games because of R4s."90%? Considering the near-ubiquity of the handheld and its expanded casual audience, we highly doubt that even 9% of DS owners in the US have a flashcart of any sort, let alone know of their existence. Though we don't consider ourselves supporters of piracy, stating a false figure like that as fact just to rally people to his cause is unconscionable.
In a way, we kind of wish the R4 was that popular, but not for any illegal reasons -- it would likely result in more homebrew projects and a much larger homebrew audience. Mr. Hillier will hear none of that, though: "The R4 has shifted balance of power in the piracy industry to the consumer -- and that is hugely worrying. That's why we intend to stop trade in these chips wherever we can."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dustin @ Jan 31st 2008 11:21AM
People will say anything...
I know ten people with DS's, and not a single one of them has ever pirated a game.
pas @ Jan 31st 2008 11:22AM
Thing is... you guys are pirates too... I guess. Even tought I know a lot ppl who are too... I still feel sorry for the company.
If they just could lower the DS Game prices :(
TheCoats @ Jan 31st 2008 11:32AM
Thats a sad excuse to steal - no offense.....i understand wanting to try a game before purchase - IE - Find out if it sucks so you dont waste the 40$ for the game - IDK - I have mixed feelings on piracy - but i dont think the price is the reason people should give to pirate.....because the fact is there is NO price......
TheCoats @ Jan 31st 2008 11:29AM
Bull-Where can i send Mr Hitler a message......I know close to 20 peoples with DS's maybe more and i have never once seen an R4 IRL - I wont lie i wouldnt mind having one but mainly for homebrew i buy my games
Chris @ Jan 31st 2008 11:31AM
I could see 90% of PSP owners playing pirated games because it is so easy and you don't need to buy any extra hardware. But DS owners? Aren't most DS owners casual gamers that probably wouldn't even be able to figure out how to pirate games?
flamingsquirrel @ Jan 31st 2008 11:34AM
well there's not much to figure out; google "ds ROMS" download the file, drag it on to a micro SD card, put that in your flashcart, put the flash cart in your DS.
anyway, 90% is complete crap.
Chris @ Jan 31st 2008 11:44AM
You need the right kind of Flash Cart too. Some will play homebrew but not roms and vice versa.
Bryant @ Jan 31st 2008 11:54AM
Easier than R4? I don't think so. With the PSP you gotta mess with the firmware and everything. And there's always the chance of bricking your system.
90% of Mr. Hiller's brain isn't functional. SEE - I can make up random stats too.
P-Dizzle @ Jan 31st 2008 11:35AM
I do happen to own a flashcart, but I also buy all my games. I use a tool to make a copy of the game I already own, and I load it on my cart so I don't have to carry 10 small, easy to loose cartridges. I do not share these, and I don't give them to anyone. I think these can be used in accordance with fair use laws, as long as the person who owns the cart obeys (which is probably not the case with most owners).
Gamer @ Jan 31st 2008 11:38AM
I hate people who don't do research before yapping their mouthes. Se"xbox," I'm looking at you. The R4 is quickly being surpassed by the M3 Real Perfect bundle and the CycloDS. The R4 only has power because for a long time it was the only cart available. And just to clarify, Flash carts are not just for pirated games. They can be used to play backup roms of games you already own. Books. Mp3s. Pictures. I bought my M3 because I want to read my Harry potter, Ender books by Orson Scott Card and the Foundation series by Asimov without lugging around all the books.
ssuk @ Jan 31st 2008 12:25PM
You have that mixed up. The M3 was the first popular 2nd Generation DS flash card (one which didn't require a GBA Flash cart and/or PassKey). The R4 became popular because it was very easy to use, something which the M3 tried to recapture with the M3 Simply.
troy @ Jan 31st 2008 1:43PM
So you are just pirating books and music?
Seb656 @ Jan 31st 2008 2:24PM
You forgot to say that its also a good way to put p0rn on the DS.
Waffala @ Jan 31st 2008 11:40PM
Seb656 and pr0n ftw.
CJC @ Jan 31st 2008 11:39AM
I have an R4, and will admit to using it to play Japanese games that will never see the light of day over here. But I'd never use it to play a game that I could just go and buy, I still mostly use it for homebrew.
If you like games, support the developers and buy them!
Brett @ Jan 31st 2008 11:41AM
Six of my college friends own DSs that I know of, and none of us pirate games. I'd figure we're the most likely demographic to do it, too.
(Now, some other friends tried to pirate xbox games a while back, but they eventually stopped when all they could get there hands on were crappy old versions of burnout.)
Commonc @ Jan 31st 2008 11:47AM
I have twenty games and storing them on one cart would be great! If I knew how to copy my games to store them on a cart I would definately buy one
foosnark @ Jan 31st 2008 11:56AM
The main reason I'm thinking about an R4 is for homebrew. DSMidiWiFi, Nitrotracker, etc.
Though the idea of not needing to carry carts around also appeals to me, I have no interest in piracy (I work in the game industry myself).
Pizza Pasta @ Jan 31st 2008 12:03PM
I love my R4, I don't use it for DS ROMs unless it's something that's really had to get (Japanese Club Nintendo releases).
However, I do use it for classic emulation and the like. I'm still waiting for Cave Story which is pretty much the reason I got an R4.
Fire Storm @ Feb 1st 2008 10:40AM
i have a flash cart and the majority of my friends do, and pretty much every other person ive met with a ds have a flashcart
Sakura3210 @ Jan 31st 2008 12:07PM
I've considered buying a flashcart, but never felt the need to since I already have other devices for reading books, etc. As for trying out games, I just look at reviews and videos to see if I'd like them. Most people I know are the same way when it comes to choosing games, so that 90% figure is BULL.
alai @ Jan 31st 2008 12:12PM
Perhaps he said "US" but meant to say "Hong Kong". I know very few people here who actually play legit games. They're impossible enough to purchase -- I can rarely find games that I want and have to make do with a flash card and then buy the legit copies when I go to Japan and the US. Every now and then I can find what I want here [Face Training!!], but it requires a lot of searching.
Darko @ Jan 31st 2008 12:11PM
CAN I HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank You!
For all of you Homebrew fans out there: jEnesis version 0.6 has been released!!! It now supports sound! I submitted this as news for dsfanboy.com but apparently they don't think its newsworthy.
Link:
http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87934
You do need to register to download... just use mailinator.com or something its a painless process
Enjoy!
Eddie @ Jan 31st 2008 12:20PM
Sorry, could you repeat that? I wasn't paying attention.
Brello @ Jan 31st 2008 12:17PM
Well I don't have an R4, and I don't know anyone that does. Let's hear it for piss poor association reps that will say anything to get attention! At least they're just going after the R4, not trying to implement some horrible DRM system for DS games. The day I have to prove my identity to Bowser is the day I quit.
C02M0 @ Jan 31st 2008 12:23PM
well...
im a happy owner of a ninjapass ,,,
i must say thet i use it mainley for non homebrew games.
(DO WHATEVER YOU WANT CUSE A PIRTAE IS FREE :D )
Niz @ Jan 31st 2008 12:18PM
I have one! i will admit it, i definately download games I have no shame, if this is an excuse, i cant believe the number of shitty games out there, developers should be jailed for some crap.
The only good games ive played are the ones i already owned before the R4, eg Mario 64 DS, Mario Kart, (theres more cant list all) you guys (DSfb) made a big deal of Mario Party , BORING! i played it for about 20 mins, then deleted it. Good thing i diddnt but it! I played Metroid on the R4 before buying it, that was worthy and i, Currently tried Mario Olypics on R4 seems good atm prolli buy it. (when in comes out in the UK)
Anyway i know about 8 people with the DS (8 player Mario Kart still does it :) about 2 of us have the R4 (including me)
Synergistic @ Jan 31st 2008 12:40PM
I know plenty of people with DSes and know of only one girl who has one of these cards, or at least some version of it. I'm certainly not going to begrudge her the chance to play Ouendan.
spugmeistress @ Feb 1st 2008 6:59AM
the DS is region-free. everyone has the chance to play Ouendan if they want to, the internet makes it just as easy to import the game as it is to download a pirated ROM.
i really really hope Nintendo don't have to implement region locking in order to try and combat piracy as that is one of the reasons why i love my DS so much
Jamar @ Feb 1st 2008 11:46AM
Uh, no. If they put in region locking I bet you 100% MORE people will be pirating. Oh, and about internet purchases- shipping is all I have to say on that. If you live in a "bad" country you may find that your game will never get to you.
Diego Carrera @ Jan 31st 2008 12:53PM
I own a R4DS and I've certainly downloaded a few games and played them a while. Most of my DS use now is for homebrew, since there are only a few games worth playing. If Nintendo and their publishers don't start making really good games I won't spend any more cash in lame games. By the way I own a few games which are worth it.
Fredo @ Jan 31st 2008 12:43PM
90% of my friends own a DS, one of them got an R4 about three weeks ago, now EVERYONE owns one, or has one being shipped as we speak... The ability to play NES ROMs (that we own) is definitely the killer app.
Gil @ Jan 31st 2008 12:44PM
R4DS is the bestest! Now if I could only find it in my house.. And another thing, 90% of statistics are made up.
The Theory @ Jan 31st 2008 12:53PM
I don't have a flashcart, but I could see getting one for the homebrews.
No interest in pirating, though.
chispito @ Jan 31st 2008 1:07PM
Come on, it's like Hiller has never even heard of Nethack.
James @ Feb 8th 2008 9:31PM
OMG, yes, and Tower Defense. I get some commercial ROMs on a "try before I buy" basis, but I got the really good ones like Advance Wars, both Castlevanias, Final Fantasy, etc. legit. The only commercial games I can think of that I played more than a tiny bit on my R4 are Tingle (it's positively *criminal* to deprive us like that!) and Ouendan (and I bought EBA as a result...). I guess Nintendo might lose a buck or two on that deal, but I think most of the losses are suffered by PlayAsia and Blockbuster.
ALH @ Jan 31st 2008 1:08PM
'90%? Considering the near-ubiquity of the handheld and its expanded casual audience, we highly doubt that even 9% of DS owners in the US have a flashcart of any sort, let alone know of their existence. '
90% is too steep, but i wouldnt put it past casuals to own a flash cart. Gaming is an expensive hobby, and those who arent *into* games often to not see the 'point' in paying for a new game- in some cases this means having a console but only a couple of games for it, in others, piracy. My sisters friend recently got a DS and the first game she got alongside it was a flash cart her uncle filled up with ROMS.
Incidentally i recently got myself an R4. I swore off the piracy side of things because i only wanted it for ebooks and homebrew- but the draw was too tempting. Now i have a small collection of games on there and think its fantastic.
I usually lug around a case with 20+ DS and GBA games. Having them all on one cart means I dont have to bother fumbling around to swap out, and i can return to the main menu at any time to use a homebrew app or read an ebook. The way i see it is i spend a LOT of money on games anyways, and as much as i do not approve of piracy- by purchasing the amount of games i have so far i've contributed to the industry, so i think its ok if i grab a couple of ROMS now and then. Especially if a game is out of print or hard to find.
The solution perhaps? A live arcade/virtual console style system which allows you to download legals ROMS for a reasonable price onto the flash cart of your choice. I dont mind paying for games- i insist on paying full price for worthy titles, but cutting out the middle man would sure free up a bit of space on my shelf.... i'm running out of space for all these plastic boxes :(
spugmeistress @ Jan 31st 2008 1:09PM
I actually don't doubt his figures, a lot of people I know who have DSs have one, and a lot of decidedly non-techy parents I know were trying to buy these for their kids' DSs this christmas as well. The R4 carts are in no way still 'underground' and the mainstream types who are buying it are not getting it for homebrew.
Peter S @ Jan 31st 2008 1:32PM
I have to admit that I kind of like the idea of owning a cart that I could use to load up a bunch of my games so I can play whatever I want at the time without finding the missing cart. Kind of like people do with Media Centers or MP3 players. Who wants to carry around every CD you own to listen to some song or other? Admittedly the carts are a LOT smaller, but that also makes a $20-$40 (or more?) object that much easier to use.
Ghaleon @ Jan 31st 2008 1:46PM
I've been an ARRR PIRATE of some movies & games my whole life, but I really like Nintendo, and the few games I want to play I have no problem just buying. Esp with all the "niche" games on Wii/DS that need sales.
I really want more Contra, Hotel Dusk, Phoenix Wright, Zack & Wiki, etc -- but stealing them doesn't help. If you're a gamer and you actually care about what games the industry produces, you need to vote with your dollar.
Dio @ Jan 31st 2008 2:08PM
My new pet peeve: the media calling flashcarts "chips" a;lsfjfklfklfds
Only a HANDFUL of DS owners use flashcarts. A handful. How many? Probably a little over 300,000. And how many DS Lite units have been sold in North America? 15 million. That's far less than 90%. Mind that the number of flashcart owners is just an estimation, as sellers in China do not release their figures. But you can rest assured that these users normally go to forums such as GBAtemp or QJ. So at most 300,000. I would normally guess like 100,000, though. So that's about 2%.
HellsHammer @ Jan 31st 2008 2:42PM
Haha. 90%...This is a joke.
It must be all those damn Nintendogs players ("Selling 17.79 million copies worldwide") out there STEALING games!!
"As of December 31, 2007, New Super Mario Bros. has sold 13.14 million copies worldwide"
"As of December 31, 2007, Mario Kart DS has sold 9.67 million copies worldwide"
"As of December 31, 2007, Pokmon Diamond and Pearl combined have sold 14.17 million copies worldwide."
I'm the only person I know with an R4, and I own 21 DS games, as well.
Honestly, Nintendo seems to be doing just fine.
Daniel Ferguson @ Jan 31st 2008 3:02PM
I have a M3 DS Real. The perfect Bundle. I didn't buy it o pirate DS games. I bought it because a flash card allows the Ds to become possibly he best portable emulator available. Atari, C64, NES, Genesis, MAME, SNES, even SCummVM! Sure it was an added bonus that I could carry around one flashcard and have all my 20+ DS games, but I was more excited about the homebrew available that added functionality that should have been there in the first place. DSOrganize adds decent PDA features and a basic web browser that's no more crippled than Nintendo/Opera's.
Sure Flash carts allow you to pirate but most websites and communities like Gbatemp.net won't even let you talk about that or where to find roms.
Flashcards are like bittorrent. At first glance , they only seem useful for piracy, but there are many uses for both that break no laws.
RaiDesu @ Jan 31st 2008 3:56PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. So this is why my R4 hasn't arrived for 10+ days? Because some little fool thinks that using DSOrganize and Colors is pirating. COME ON. Some people need to conjure up a little intelligence and research. Provide US with some solid proof, and you might not be an idiot.
hvnlysoldr @ Jan 31st 2008 3:56PM
In recent news the eye patch makers of America are reporting record sales.
MidnightScott @ Jan 31st 2008 4:33PM
I guess I'm a half pirate then?
I own 47 DS games legally. I just like to try before I buy so I don't end up with something I won't like. It's convinced me to get Mario & Sonic DS after all and helped me decide to get 10 other DS games I own. =D
I like it because of the try before buy feature but I would never stop buying games because if I just pirated them it would only hurt the industry which means less games coming from my favorite developers.
While the R4 might help people I'm sure tons of the people out there who have one don't buy the actual games. Which is why these types of devices will never be legal in the US.
Ken Seang @ Jan 31st 2008 4:45PM
The market is so large with the DS that the percentage of people with flashcart are relatively low.
nunix @ Jan 31st 2008 4:57PM
By the by, you can buy them via Amazon. They may not be mainstream, but you don't have to deal with dodgy overseas webfront companies if you don't want to, which was the only thing holding me back for a long time.
Dan @ Jan 31st 2008 7:00PM
honestly thats a load of crud. Im sure less than 1out of 10 DS owners even know of the R4 and even less use them. I didnt even know that such a thing existed untill now. Besides what does Mr. Hiller hope to gain by slapping a completely absurd statistic to an equally absurd claim?
nintendo1889 @ Jan 31st 2008 8:07PM
What about games that Nintendo never intends to release in the US? (*Cough* Mother 3 and Dragon Quest IV *cough*)! Or what about Snes games that will never show up on the Virtual Console? If Nintendo doesn't like it, why don't they do anything about it!?