Suda 51: Only casual Nintendo games selling on Wii

by JC Fletcher { Jan 16th 2008 at 4:45PM }

Suda 51's No More Heroes was reviewed very well, but just didn't do so great financially in Japan. In an interview with CVG, he suggests that it's indicative of a larger trend about the Wii audience: that they only really go for games published by Nintendo. "Whilst the sales weren't as high as I hoped, other titles for Wii aren't selling so well either. Only Nintendo titles are doing well."

He also said that the Wii audience is focused on casual gaming rather than the longer, narrative games that he tends to make. "Actually I was very surprised about the reality about Wii, because before I was making this game, I wasn't expecting that Wii would be a console targeted only for non-gamers. I expected more games for hardcore gamers. The reality is different to what I expected."

Yes, there may be some grape-souring effect at work here, but Wii software sales would certainly seem to bear Suda's claims out. Of course, we've seen this happening since the beginning of the Wii's lifecycle. The Wii is, by and large, the Wii Sports machine for the general public, with Wii Play occasionally swapped in (because why not try out the game that you bought along with that second controller?). The more devoted Wii fans are also buying Super Mario Galaxy, of course, but not much else.

We just feel bad for poor Suda. He's made what seems to be a brilliant game, and probably his most accessible yet, but the Japanese audience didn't notice because it doesn't have the word "Wii" in the title or the Nintendo logo on the front of the box.

Tags: casual, no-more-heroes, suda51

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

vidGuy @ Jan 16th 2008 4:53PM

Few people buy fine art but many enjoy it and the world wouldn't be the same without it. Just the same, hardcore gamers are going to remain and will buy true, good videogames.

BluClouds7 @ Jan 16th 2008 4:55PM

the facts dont lie, i suppose

Shad0wguy @ Jan 16th 2008 4:58PM

That really sucks. Because of this it will turn Suda off from creating any more games for the Wii.

I am buying this game. Now that Brawl was pushed I have no reason not to.

gb @ Jan 16th 2008 5:01PM

Dear Suda51,

If you make games that appeal to a wider audience, your sales will likely increase. No more heroes is a day one purchase for me and it is nice to see original games on the wii. Don't sell out.

Ralph @ Jan 16th 2008 5:07PM

Nothing personal, but that's a retarded argument. Trying to make games for broader appeal usually means making a title less artistic, less abstract, and less puzzling (which is exactly opposite to how Suda51 makes his games). Suda51 is famous for making Suda51 games; and if he stops doing so, then he should just find employment with EA.

gb @ Jan 16th 2008 5:19PM

lrn2read ralph. I said "don't sell out" :)

Ralph @ Jan 16th 2008 10:49PM

huh. I would suggest you learn better sentence composition.

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:06PM

Do you know the other meaning of the phrase "sell out", Ralph? The one that doesn't mean to run out of stock? He's trying to tell Suda to keep making cool, original Wii games the way he does.

Clark @ Jan 16th 2008 5:08PM

I have really liked the Wii but if this trend continues I don't think it will remain that great too me. I have liked the sports and stuff but when I'm alone I would rather play a game with more substance to it. If his games did well for the gamecube then I can't imagine why they can't do well on the Wii.

That said, the DS is much like the Wii and it seems to do well for third parties so what gives?

In the end, after all the sales are in (US and Europe included), I wonder if it won't have still been worth it for him. Considering the larger costs associated with making games on the other systems and everything it still may make sense in the end.

snu183 @ Jan 16th 2008 11:07PM

well the ds has been out for a lot longer then the wii. i really think end of this yr/next yr we will see some really good games. all these ports will stop because companies will have had time to develop games from the bottom up to give us true wii experiences.
2008=yr of the ports for 3rd parties to cash in and figure out what the wii abilities are
2009=3rd parties releasing orignal ips etc etc

-d
support ur wii, buy more games

Mr Khan @ Jan 16th 2008 5:08PM

I agree with gb. Suda 51 should've already known that he doesn't really have a knack for making blockbusters

That being said, No More Heroes will probably do a lot better in America (not great, but maybe sell like 2-3 hundred thousand in a few months). The game's over-the-top violence, Robert Rodriguez/Quentin Tarantino-style of storytelling, and the fact that it is set in a Southern California city (aside from the much greater American population, with more in Europe) should get it off the ground more

comtar @ Jan 16th 2008 5:30PM

Dear Suda 51,

I'll be buying your game when it comes out, I like what you do so please don't be discouraged!

A fan,

Comtar

Nigeria @ Jan 16th 2008 5:27PM

Why is the word "casual" floated about as if it is some slur?

And what is it to be "casual"?

I'm planning buying this game, whenever it lands in Pal-Land, but blood and masturbation jokes is not what makes a "hardcore" game.

Look at the greatest game of all time: Sonic and Knuckles. It is the perfect game you can pick up and blast through whenever you feel a need to do some running and jumping. It's really easy to get into but has deceptive secrets and depending on how you play it can be either "hardcore"" or "casual". I can play this game at 3 O'clock in the morning or afternoon and feel the same joy.

Based on Suda's previous work, this feeling of joy is not initially present. It's too hard to set up and get into the action. You need time and patience and not everybody has time. Some people just want to run and jump.

I like the picture.

flameofdoom666 @ Jan 16th 2008 11:49PM

"Look at the greatest game of all time: Sonic and Knuckles."

Ummm..... NO. SOnic and Knuckles wasnt even great in it's time, let alone it being the greatest game of all time.

Nigeria @ Jan 17th 2008 11:46AM

I should have said "Sonic and Knuckles is MY greatest game of all time".

Either way, my point still stands.

On a side note, my five greatest games of all time:
Sonic and Knuckles;
Virtua Fighter 2;
Marvel Vs Capcom 2;
Super Mario Bros 3;
Kirby's DreamLand.

The Wii needs more games like the ones I just mentioned.

And more original lightgun games.

That is all.

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:17PM

Metroid Prime was the greatest game of all time. :)

I get your point, though. The problem I have is that the old classics from the NES and SNES seem to defy the casual/hardcore barrier, so why can't modern games? Even a lot of XBots and BSPSfanboys (and I encourage you all to use those terms as the people they describe don't deserve the more respectful titles they usually get) would concede that Super Mario Bros. was a great game, but to have a game with a similar concept nowadays (read: Mario Galaxy) is laughable to them. Where's the logic in that? While most of us would consider ourselves core (or at least not "casual") gamers, we still love Mario Galaxy and so do our casual gaming friends. Why does it still have a kiddy image in the general public, then?

samfish @ Jan 16th 2008 5:33PM

According to some of the weirdos on Neogaf, No More Heroes has apparently outsold Killer 7 already in Japan, as per Media Crate sales.

So if that's true, he should really not be complaining.

Mr Khan @ Jan 16th 2008 5:41PM

That's because if No More Heroes could be deemed "inaccessible" to most gamers, Killer 7 was about 7x as bad (not bad, but bad in having that flaw)

Good_Bytes @ Jan 16th 2008 5:47PM

I think it's the fault of Nintendo.
They only made commercial to attract non-gamers (well here in Canada anyway), so gamers don't have the Wii. They have XBox 360's and PS2's/PS3's.

Nintendo should defiantly start targeting gamers as well. For sure online play with voice chat with friends will help to kick start that, but marketing is what is required to attract gamers.

Julien @ Jan 17th 2008 9:19AM

No,
The problem is ..
...

...

...

Hardcore gamers and their lazy asses + Nintendo stock probs.

Every hardcore gamer I know are too busy / lazy to pick up a wii. If it could be found everywhere it'd help a bunch.

But why oh why can't I see a Wii in store as we speak... almost 2 years after the release. (Don't tell me it's because of the stocks.. puulease!)

WAKE UP NINTY dammit.

justin b. @ Jan 17th 2008 6:04PM

ARGH! DAMN IT! I'm so SICK of hearing these things! It's not fair to developers on Wii!! Everytime a developer goes out of his or her way to make a deep, fully-fleshed out and original experience, the friggin Japanese public shoots them down by choosing to play Wii Sports and Cooking Mama! I feel so bad for them! Games aren't cheap, and it takes a lot of manpower and hard work to even make one, let alone a blockbuster. This happened with No More Heroes, Twilight Princess, even freaking Galaxy didn't sell like it should have (although it did very well). I constantly feel compelled to shell out 50 bucks to back up good games that deserve success and sequels, and don't even get me started on how hard it is to start a new IP in the biz nowadays... this stupid Japan trend is played out, plain and simple. We do it here, too, but not as much as those guys. You want to know why Wii is filled with shovelware and minigames? Because that's the only thing morons buy, and morons are the biggest gaming group right now. I just wish morons would read reviews and stuff to know what's REALLY worth their money. (Note: It's fine to play casual games, as long as they are GOOD. Like Rayman Raving Rabbids, or Mario Kart, or Brain Age. Not "Super Carnival Yay". That's like a RETARD casual game.)

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 9:41PM

Your base point makes sense. However, it could have been stated more civilly.

Gonzo @ Jan 20th 2008 4:13PM

Yea, you could've been more civil, but then I don't think you would've hit the nail right on the head.
Good Job!

Save the Zombies!

-G

dromens @ Jan 16th 2008 6:06PM

I'm guessing that some games don't sell well on the Wii, because the "hardcore" gamers who would by them probably own a PS3 or XBox360 as well. If the game is available for those consoles as well, naturally they would prefer the higher resolutions offered by those machines. I don't think you'd see with problem with an HD enabled Wii. Here's to the future, eh?

CJLopez @ Jan 16th 2008 11:06PM

I consider myself a hardcore gamer, i owned a nes when i was 2, a snes, i skipped the n64 and gamecube, found the pc, i have a ps2, and now i bought a Wii, cuz is the Wii!!!!!!! Of course, 'll be getting a PS3 in some near future, but still, yeah, Nintendo may have not aimed for hardcore gamers who only want sequels of well received titles, but also wants shinny graphics, let em be, we Wii gamers are more mature and recognize that, not becuz games aren't as shinny as PS3/XBOX360 games are not good games!!!!

So, Suda51, No More Heroes will be kicking my free time's ass when it's released, so keep on doing more Wii games like this one!!!!!!!!!

TriptychR @ Jan 17th 2008 12:33AM

CJLopez, not to be a jerk, but when you make an argument about being "more mature," please use preferably one but at the very maximum only three exclamation points to end a sentence. Anything more just doesn't look very mature.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but appearance counts in written arguments.

Julien @ Jan 17th 2008 9:22AM

I, king of the koopas, laugh at you Tripty the little
Mwahahahahaha !!!!!!!!!

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:23PM

I think I agree with CJ, but I won't really know until he can rewrite his post in English.

iMeh @ Jan 16th 2008 6:14PM

I consider myself a hardcore gamer, but life gets in the way and so I don't have time to dedicate multiple hours into a game like I used to. I want to be able to play a game for a short time (and enjoy it) then come back another time to continue it. I read somewhere that the with the Wii there's now a new breed of gamer...the "hardcore casual gamer."

I still enjoy great games and plan on buying this one.

What 3rd parties don't understand is that Nintendo gamers want only the best!! Unfortunately not every 3rd party game is up to par with Nintendo software. There are exceptions....GUITAR HERO III anyone?

Julien @ Jan 17th 2008 9:23AM

Is it really the best game you found? GH3? Duuuude...
To each his own (I suppose)

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:35PM

iMeh, you're a genius! The reason "hardcore games tend to sell better on non-Wii platforms is because those gamers will play whatever gets thrown at them because 1) they have nothing better to do, 2) they want to appear all "hardcore" so they grab up the latest Halo, or 3) they just don't know what they're missing. We, on the other hand, want our games to be great because we're used to Nintendo's brilliant franchises. If we all switched to being PS3 or 360 only gamers, sure we'd be wowed by the HD for a while and contented by a few decent games, but one morning when the novelty wears off, we'd find ourselves saying "Now, where did I put my Mario Galaxy?"

Edguy @ Jan 16th 2008 6:37PM

The hope here is that the casual market for the Wii will die down after it's fad-ness dies out and it becomes a regular console again.

The problem is that the Wii may not recover after that.

Hunting_phoenix @ Jan 16th 2008 6:52PM

I am a serious gamer. I don't own a 360 or PS3, just a Wii (plus handhelds). I am not interested in No More Heroes. It just didn't look that interesting. Perhaps Suda51 isn't making games that appeal to a wide audience...Wii owners or otherwise.

The reason Nintendo's games are selling best? They ARE the best, and most widely appealing. The number two reason I don't own a 360 or Ps3 is there are not really any games I'm dying to play (number 1 reason is cost). Wii? I can't wait for Smash Bros. and I will probably pick up Mario Galaxy soon.

Julien @ Jan 17th 2008 9:24AM

If you don't already have Mario Galaxy, you are not a gamer.

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:38PM

If you seriously just judged someone based on the time at which they bought a game, you're an insult to Nintendo fans everywhere.

Ethan @ Jan 16th 2008 7:05PM

Casual gamers could also be described as 'new,' I think they'll warm to games which require more personal investment eventually.

amaron11 @ Jan 16th 2008 7:36PM

When a system is proliferated with casual games, of course they are going to only sell casual games.

This casual vs. hardcore argument reminds me of the chicken and the egg.

Brendon @ Jan 16th 2008 8:55PM

I, too, am getting sick of all this "hardcore/casual" nonsense. Are there "hardcore" moviegoers? "Hardcore" readers? I'm sure that not many people would be proud to call themselves a "hardcore" TV viewer.

SoshiKitai @ Jan 17th 2008 1:08AM

...actually... there are.

Most hardcore tv viewers are just considered "couch potatoes"...
...well, it depends on the shows... some people OBSESS over Food Network, and some OBSESS over Comedy Central... or golf...

And there are "Book Worms".

And "Movie Critics". (not the job, just a title)

.......like you know: anime fans vs. otakus.

It's not fake. It's very real. And it gets scary...

Hardcore gamers LIVE for video games. LIVE. And if they don't live for it, they're just top gamers or game lovers.

Brendon @ Jan 17th 2008 2:10AM

Well, that's my point. It's semantics. No one would proudly call themselves a "couch potato", yet in the gaming community people are more than happy to define themselves as the equivalent of such. Although, I guess the same could be said for "bookworms".

Not to sound like an old fogey (you know, like "you kids today" and all that), but if you want a definition of "hardcore gamer", try to picture a time when you actually had to leave your home and go to an arcade. Plus, you needed a pocket full of quarters (hello, is that Buckner and Garcia I hear?).

Long story short (too late), I know how difficult it is when the mainstream picks up on something you consider to be "yours". It happens as you age.

Perverted @ Jan 16th 2008 8:56PM

I was hardcore and I'm now more casual but i will pick this game up even if though i get the crappy black mist version....
My only hope is that it does sell or all we'll see is mini-game collections and Puff the magic dragon games.....Uh i hope not.....

tiamat1990 @ Jan 16th 2008 10:14PM

Oh no...if developers keep thinking this they're going to stop trying hard on this console.

CPFace @ Jan 16th 2008 11:20PM

Hmmmm... Wait, lemme think about what I own quick:

Wii Sports (duh)
Super Mario Galaxy
Wario Ware: Smooth Moves
Cooking Mama
Big Brain Academy (as dictated by the bundle I bought, haven't had the heart to get rid of it)
Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Zack & Wiki
Endless Ocean (on pre-order)

I'm going to say... yes. Yes, I do seem to have a strong preference for the games that can be played "casually", and especially for the games that are heavy on the motion controls. However, I am not new to gaming. I've been gaming since our household got its first contemporary gaming system, an NES in 1989.

The fact of the matter is, No More Heroes simply doesn't appeal to me. First and foremost is the gore and violence that everyone seems to be digging on. That has *always* been a turn-off for me. And even if it wasn't a bloody game, it would be hard for me to get too excited about it because I haven't heard anything about it that really separates it from all of the other action adventure games out there. Yeah, great, I'm sure it's got a compelling story. I'm sure it will entertain and delight people. But the sad truth is, I've had my fill of that sort of experience. I'm glad I got Mario Galaxy, but even then, I waited until it was on sale at Target before I picked it up.

This isn't just about grandmothers picking up their first gaming system ever -- this is also about people like me who are simply bored and want to play with something different. I'll buy any third party game that dares to do something that interests me. (Buying Harvey Birdman after reading so many bad reviews should be evidence enough of that.) If my library is a little Nintendo-heavy, it's simply because Nintendo can deliver in that respect much more consistently than most developers.

Developers *should* have the latitude to make any sort of game they want. I don't think there's any question about that. But if they're hoping to make a killing selling software? Then they're going to have to start thinking about what motivated people to buy the Wii in the first place and then to think about how they can deliver on that need.

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:49PM

I followed you until the last paragraph. I don't think you want thirs parties making that kind of decision by themselves. Most of them will completely ignore that people are looking for new experiences and instead defend the idea that people bough a Wii looking for mini-game collections and senseless waggle (the kind that doesn't remotely match the game motion it represents).

Undead Priest @ Jan 16th 2008 11:41PM

SUDA51's/Grasshopper Manufacture's next Wii project is Fatal Frame 4 (which was moved from PS3 to Wii exclusive, btw). I can't wait for that one, either.

But No More Heroes definitely appeals to me. I absolutely loved Killer7 and Contact. He's won me over completely with those two titles, so his name attached to a game is an insta-buy. I'm a Wii gamer that does not buy into the Wii Sports/Wario Ware/Wii Play garbage. The most 'casual' game I own, in my admittedly small collection for Wii is Rayman Raving Rabbids. And that was a launch title and won me over with it's great humor.

Undead Priest @ Jan 16th 2008 11:59PM

I should point out I also own Wii Sports, obviously, as it's included with the Wii.

Steve @ Jan 17th 2008 1:22AM

I'd be more interested in No More Heroes if it weren't ugly as sin. The action looks fun, but the art is hideous. I just can't get into that style...it looks like Star Fox 64 meets Grand Theft Auto III. Bleh.

FX-1 @ Jan 17th 2008 3:46PM

I still play Starfox 64. That thing is a masterpiece!

Gonzo @ Jan 17th 2008 12:01PM

That doesn't make any sense!
I thought the best selling not nintendo game was Resident Evil 4. At
lest it was a couple of months ago.

That tells me that Wii gamers want whole games. We don't want to pay
$50 for something we'll complete in a weekend. For a while the only fun games that ran for a good length were first party games or good ports from other consoles like RE4 and Godfather. I think people just have to get used to the fact that the value of new third party releases will be improving. Remember, these publishers thought the Wii was going to bomb so they didn't really start working on anything new until a year ago.

I'm definitely picking up NMH because from what I hear, it's a whole
game.