Do Mario games need a better story?
God of War 2 director Cory Barlog recently criticized Super Mario Galaxy in his blog for its "vapid story." While he does have some positive things to say about the game, Barlog was ultimately left disappointed. As for the reason he didn't get hooked on the game, he speculates, "I think it is because I just don't care about the why. I mean, the freaking princess is abducted ... again." The fact that Mario games sell incredibly well isn't lost on him, and he acknowledges that they're fun to play, but to him they're still missing a key element.Barlog expressing his distaste for something Wii related is nothing new, but all the same, we think his point is valid. While playing Mario games is more about the great platforming experience than the "why" behind it, we can't help but wonder if some fresh story elements would bring some life into the franchise. We certainly wouldn't complain if we were to see something different in the next iteration of Mario, but maybe that's just us.
[Via Game|Life]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Demotruk @ Jan 5th 2008 4:12PM
God no. Mario is a game where you run along jumping on weird things heads, or in this case, jumping around planets in a "galaxy" and from platform to platform and on weird things heads.
Stories are there to make you feel immersed, or to give you a goal. If they're going to give Mario a good story, it's gonna have to start making sense, and sense is the last thing that Mario needs.
I'm getting the feeling that these people just want to focus on what the game lacks, even though it really should lack that aspect.
Save your good stories for RPG's, adventure games and point and clicks. Next they'll want to give Mario Kart a story...
ssuk @ Jan 5th 2008 5:40PM
There is a story in Mario, always has been. However it is one that you can ignore. As Mario games become more advanced, as seen in Galaxy, those story elements become more prominent and the player is forced to follow this story.
Same happened with Sonic. Sonic games started out with a simple story, you had fun jumping on stuff, the end. Now you're forced through hours of crappy story which only 11 year olds would find cool. Where as Sonic of old could be, and is, loved by all ages. Mario doesn't need to follow that same path, as it leads to nowhere good.
B1gC72 @ Jan 6th 2008 1:52AM
dammit ssuk beat me to it lol.
if they start adding an in depth story to Mario, he would essentially become Sonic, and that aint a good thing last i checked. seriously, i dont even care about the story when im playing Mario games and often forget that my goal is to save the princess. im always too busy collecting stars and looking for hidden crap. Mario games change each time because of the environment you are placed in and the gameplay itself, if your looking for a story, a Mario game is not a place to find one. i mean comparing some Mario games (64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Paper Mario, etc.) they all have the same objective (save the princess) but are very different games in the gameplay department. its not like they are just rehashing the same EXACT experience every time with updated graphics. please, Mario is fine the way it is.
dewmandew7 @ Jan 5th 2008 4:14PM
The question is: Is it possible to craft a story that gamers will connect with in a Mario platformer? Obviously it worked for Paper Mario, but I'm skeptical of whether a rich, involving story is possible in one of Mario's platforming outings.
Gemski @ Jan 5th 2008 4:26PM
Mario is about gameplay and fun. People who focus on SMG's story miss that point entirely. We have enough games that want to be movies, leave some games as just...games.
Michael Sliczniak @ Jan 5th 2008 4:37PM
Mario games need NO story. I was simply frustrated with the superfluous story in SMG and Paper Mario for Wii.
hvnlysoldr @ Jan 5th 2008 4:38PM
Like his games had a coherent story anyway.
WhatIsThatThing @ Jan 5th 2008 7:40PM
Bowser kidnaps princess. Mario sends Bowser into lava (even though he survives...somehow). Mario rescues princess. Mario makes sexy time with princess (although he uses protection of course).
zldaphreek @ Jan 5th 2008 4:38PM
f&$@ no!!! thats what makes ninty games what they are! anybody who's ever held an NES controller in their hands should know thats not what their games are based on. they're about having fun!
FX-1 @ Jan 5th 2008 8:13PM
Many Nintendo games like Zelda and Metroid actually benefit from the inclusion of good story. But you're right in thinking that Mario is better without one. And this Barlog guys is an idiot (no surprise there) for not seeing that.
Grimace @ Jan 5th 2008 4:43PM
I think this is a valid point. My all-time favorite mario game is RPG. Why? Because of the unique spin on the "save the princess" storyline. The characters had a depth to them I had never seen in any of the prior games. (Particularly Bowser's Insecurity) I have given up hope on a true sequel to SMRPG, but I don't think it would do any harm to add more story to the next mario game. More than likely it would help it.
Mr Khan @ Jan 5th 2008 4:47PM
Once upon a time, a popular platforming mascot got his first 3D gig, it was supposed to revitalize a franchise that had been on decline for a bit, but still carried a lot of weight. It would be an epic title, with a story that would be told in mind-blowing CG animated scenes, as well as a number of real-time scenes. A fleshed-out story would make the game totally epic
Sonic Adventure, which was followed by Adventure 2, Heroes (which actually was better about not having an over-elaborate story), Shadow the Hedgehog (ick), Sonic 2006 (the worst of the lot for over-elaborate stories), and Secret Rings (which was better again, since they didn't focus on the why)
oddEvan @ Jan 5th 2008 5:23PM
I agree on the Sonic 2006 bit. Personally, I thought Secret Rings had a nice blend of story and gameplay. It was epic in its own right, but, *by virtue of Sonic's personality,* the game didn't spend much time focusing on the whole "save the world" bit, just "let's kick this pink guy's [bleep]." And my roommates can tell you just how pissed I was at the final boss after he... i'm sorry, i need a moment
On that note, I think Galaxy has a nice change to the story. I'm actually starting to care about Rosalina, especially with the little "storybook" segments that you don't need to play. They might be able to add a little story, but honestly all you need is to make the player want to help the good guys and hurt the bad guys without being over-the-top. Sonic 2006 is over-the-top. Sonic and the Secret Rings is about just right. Super Mario Galaxy has a good blend for a Mario game, though Mario himself seems just a touch underdeveloped.
Alien-Pirate @ Jan 5th 2008 4:55PM
I have mixed feeling towards this subject. On one hand it'd be great for a new, well written 'why?' behind the next Mario game, another reason to see the game to the end. But on the other hand I have to defend the simple kidnapped princess story, it's timeless.
seetrapp @ Jan 5th 2008 4:58PM
Yeah, I think that Nintendo should release a Mario game with a more developed and dense story just to show everyone how disappointing a Mario game can be. Are people like Barlog tired of playing games like Mario that are near perfection in their childlike whimsy and sheer enjoyment? There are other games that can give you the substance that you crave, but the video game is obviously not the best medium for such substance.
troy @ Jan 5th 2008 5:00PM
Here's an idea: Mario starts out on the highest cliff in the Mushroom Kingdom, where he throws himself off. For the rest of the game, we get to see through his eyes at the events of the last few weeks of his life, to understand why he did what he did. And then eat a power mushroom and grow GIGANTIC!
DomoBraden @ Jan 5th 2008 5:03PM
I'm sure this post is going to be reduced to invisibility within minutes, but I honestly agree with him. I loved Mario Galaxy...LOVED IT, but found that the lack of any real meat to the story left me wanting more.
I just finished Ratchet & Clank Future, (*ducks and covers*), and that really made the point to me of how much a platformer can gain from a story. The gameplay was pretty good with R&C, not as good as MG, (but still pretty damn fun), but in the end I'd give them identical scores. R&C's story made up for any of its other shortcomings and then some. It compelled me to keep coming back and gave the game a sense of purpose outside of the already fun gameplay.
As others have said, I'm not sure what kind of story would work in a Mario game. Cutscenes are nice, as is voice acting, (though I REALLY don't want Mario to talk...I think it would end up being annoying). It doesn't need to be some epic, complex plot to be good. Look at most LoZ games, they have an involving story that gives the gameplay purpose but at the same time is very minimal overall. Hell, even SSB:B looks like it's going to have a pretty nice story, and I'm sure the single player experience will benefit from that greatly.
In the end I will continue playing Mario games as long as they keep coming out, strong story or otherwise. Mainly I'm just trying to say that I agree with him that they could potentially improve the games in a great way.
(You may now proceed to flame me)
Croove55 @ Jan 5th 2008 5:44PM
Green Arrow'd.
Yes, Mario is about gameplay, and will always be about gameplay before ANYTHING ELSE, but if the writers *are* going to bother with a story that needs more explanation than "Princess Peach was kidnapped" (which I don't mind at all, that would be a great way for them to let players focus on the gameplay) , it'd be nice if they actually put some effort into it.
For example, !!!SPOILERS UP AHEAD!!!
We do understand by the end of SMG's story that Peach is, more likely than not, a descendant from the same royal family as Rosalina, who left Mario's "Earth" hundreds of years ago. It would be nice if they at least spoke to each other at some point near the end, to kind of put some sort of resolution to the past internal conflict that Rosalina had about leaving home.
Also, the most generous way I can look at Bowser's "Grand Plan" was as an emphasis of how simple-minded the villian was. Both of the times that the player meets Bowser before the final showdown, he talks about how close his plan is to completion. With all of that buildup, you'd think there would be *some* nuance to the scheme this time, but no, it turns out to be "I GUNNA MAEK A GALXAY N KONKER STUF." Of course, the real letdown was Bowser's lack of a second form, but that's not really story related.
I understand the game is played by kids as well, but it'd be nice if the plot had at least something between the exposition and the resolution. At least one major event in the middle
(which Sunshine actually had, with the revealing of Bowser Jr. as Shadow Mario and his false belief that he was doing the right thing. Heck, the kid probably had more character traits than anyone else by the end of the story)
would make the story worth paying attention to. Mario games are wonderful without stories, so imagine what the SMALLEST (
Croove55 @ Jan 5th 2008 5:47PM
(lol, cutoff) bit of depth would do to the player's motivation.
Galaxy was great as it was, though, and has to be one of my top ten games of all time.
Joop @ Jan 5th 2008 5:09PM
Personally, I'd rather they skip the story entirely. It's just not that kind of game. It's like a racing, puzzle, or game. You're not playing for a a story, you're playing for the gameplay...for the sake of playing a game. Would Tetris, Madden, or Gran Turisimo benefit from a story?
vidGuy @ Jan 5th 2008 5:09PM
Absolutely not. Many games benefit from detailed, emotional stories, but Mario isn't one of them. I don't want to hear about Luigi's depression from always playing second-fiddle to his brother and I certainly don't want Mario fighting terrorists in the future or mangling Greek mythology.
Mario games are solid platformers, and such games are about experience classic gaming and immediate fun, not 15 minute video intros and volumes of dialog.
Matt @ Jan 5th 2008 5:19PM
Mario platformers aren't about the story, that's what the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games are for. The first Mario & Luigi on GBA is still one of my favorites for story and dialog, not to mention the awesome gameplay. At least Galaxy had some amount of story with Rosalina and the stars, though it was pretty convoluted and non-essential.
CPFace @ Jan 5th 2008 5:26PM
I completely agree, Mario games need a better storyline. They're just not enjoyable without one.
You know what else is a crappy game that needs a better storyline? Chess. I don't know how the hell people have managed to play this game for centuries when there's no character or depth to the narrative.
In conclusion, no leisure activity is worthwhile unless it's an epic novel.
Fortis @ Jan 5th 2008 5:34PM
Yeah, let's give Mario a complex, deep, story and ruin the franchise. It worked wonders for Sonic!
DomoBraden @ Jan 5th 2008 7:34PM
Fair enough, but I think the main problem was the gameplay and sh*tty camera system...the story was pretty terrible though. Also, Sega doesn't exactly have a AAA track-record since the switch to 3D.
Abscissa @ Jan 5th 2008 8:11PM
Oh, and what, Mario Galaxy doesn't have a shitty camera system? I've played all the games in both series. Sonic's camera, while very shitty, was certainly never as bad as Mario Galaxy's. Granted, the other Mario games did have a better camera than Sonic, but they were still well below par as far as 3D platformers go.
HPFFE @ Jan 5th 2008 10:42PM
Galaxy's camera was almost perfect in my opinion.
And as regards the story, I don't care as far as the game/levels are as fun and as cool as the've always been.
vidGuy @ Jan 6th 2008 2:50AM
Mark another who thinks that SMG's camera is damn-near perfect. I'm a good chunk of the way through the game and only one time did the camera interfere. You've got to consider that this game has the player running around (sometimes small) 3D planets, so things are a little different than flat terrain.
Fist Drark @ Jan 6th 2008 4:43AM
It seems to me that the only reason people complain about the camera in Galaxy is simply because they are less capable than others at circumnavigating.
Shariq Ansari @ Jan 5th 2008 5:50PM
Emphasis on "story" is what's driving a lot of games into the ground. Video game characters these days just talk too damn much.
Abscissa @ Jan 5th 2008 8:12PM
YES!! Exactly what I've been saying for years! Spot-on.
ALH @ Jan 5th 2008 7:21PM
How about a new IP instead of tacking a story onto an old one.
Croove55 @ Jan 5th 2008 7:25PM
Even better!
DomoBraden @ Jan 5th 2008 7:44PM
I wouldn't have a problem with that, except for the number of franchises that Nintendo has that haven't had modern incarnations. What say ye to a new Kid Icarus? I think a game like that would be perfect for great story telling.
When I said earlier that I think Mario games could benefit from more of a story I actually mean that it could use a BETTER one. It doesn't need to be any more prevelant than the one in Galaxy...just better. Mario is all about gameplay, and I never want that to change, but I'd definitely be down for a plot set-up that gives the player a better sense of what is at stake if Mario doesn't succeed. Bowser doesn't come off as much of a threat anymore simply by kidnapping Peach.
I suppose I'm largely alone with that whole opinion..
ALH @ Jan 5th 2008 8:13PM
'except for the number of franchises that Nintendo has that haven't had modern incarnations.What say ye to a new Kid Icarus?'
I'd say REHASHAN GAEMS then demand some new IP.
The only reason SMG was a mario game was to sell units. Why couldnt it have been a random new spaceman character? Because that would have been risky. Ok, there are clever spins on old mario faves in the game like pipes or whatever, but its not like that couldnt have been changed to teleport pads or something.
I like nintendo, dont get me wrong ( i say that with a pinch of salt since i dont like how they treat europe :p) but rehash after rehash after rehash when theres no need to, when they could easily slap on a new coat of paint is incredibly lazy, INNOVASHUN aside.
That doesnt mean that the old franchises have to be put away forever, its ok to dust em off and shove them into something like brawl, but its painful to see something with such incredible, fresh new ideas like SMG be tied into the past instead of looking ahead with something 100% original.
samfish @ Jan 6th 2008 3:49AM
"but its painful to see something with such incredible, fresh new ideas like SMG be tied into the past instead of looking ahead with something 100% original."
How preposterously stupid.
Some of you people NEED to wake up and realize that it's not about characters. It's about gameplay, which Nintendo has proven to be remarkably adept at changing up and innovating over the years.
Does it REALLY bother you so much just because it's Mario running around in space and not some stupid Space Marine character who you've never seen before?
Seriously...EXPLAIN to me how Mario Galaxy would be better if it wasn't a Mario game. I'd GOT to hear this.
ALH @ Jan 6th 2008 9:26AM
'Seriously...EXPLAIN to me how Mario Galaxy would be better if it wasn't a Mario game. I'd GOT to hear this.'
Using that logic *every* game should be a mario game because it doesnt matter who the character is so long as the gameplay is solid.
Taking mario out of SMG would make it DIFFERENT. And while the game does not require a plot, having something DIFFERENT is always a nice change. Having the guts to try something new earns you respect.
I dont mind playing as mario, who wouldnt when SMG plays so well? But in terms of appeal- for me a new, well-designed character who actually blends in with the theme of space would have made me far more interested in buying the game than one set in the mario universe does. The only reason i bought SMG was because of the good reviews, and the fact that it was a 'mario' game actually put me off more than anything.
I know my opinions are skewed, a lot of nintendo fans were waiting for a new mario and nintendo provided them with a great one. SMG isnt a bad game, its a fantastic game, but i personally would hold it with far more respect if it were a little more 'indy' and dropped the franchise. Its a shame that couldnt happen though, not in an industry like this one.
Secre @ Jan 5th 2008 7:23PM
I'm pretty sure that Mario and Peach would be as tired of the "save the princess" thing as Bowser is tired of losing to Mario. Maybe for once, Bowser could lose his castle to some random bad guy and seek help from Mario. Hilarity would ensue.
Croove55 @ Jan 5th 2008 7:29PM
I'm going to feel really stupid if you were being sarcastic, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_mario_rpg#Story
Secre @ Jan 5th 2008 7:35PM
I never got around to playing that one, even though I meant to. I think. I can't really find it on Gamefly, so it's a little bit hard for me to get it.
samfish @ Jan 5th 2008 7:38PM
Initially I kind of agreed with him, thinking it would be nice to have the story elements fleshed out a bit more.
...but then I started thinking just what those elements would be.
And the more I think about it, the more I DON'T want a bunch of random 5 minute cut scenes popping up trying to add "depth" to some superfluous story in Galaxy or any Mario game. It would just ruin the flow of the game, unless they completely changed the way Mario games are done. And I have a feeling that only the worst Nintendo haters would say they want to see that.
Nintendo is one of the few developers left out there who focus on making games fun to play instead of making semi-interactive movies that, though perhaps fun, usually AREN'T as fun to play as any Nintendo game.
...well, Clover understood that, too, but I digress...
Jayenkai @ Jan 5th 2008 7:49PM
The main Mario games don't need a storyline. That's what the RPG/Paper series is there for.
You want a storyline, don't play a platformer. Platformers should have X levels, a start and a finish. And a manual to give you a rough idea as to why you're doing it.
Abscissa @ Jan 5th 2008 8:03PM
"Do Mario games need a better story?"
No, Mario games need *LESS* story. I can't stand what this new Mario director has done to the series.
Tom @ Jan 5th 2008 8:05PM
Yeah, this guy is just trying to find some way to bash Galaxy, even though there's nothing wrong with the story. I mean, if they made a different storyline then that would be cool, as long as they wouldn't completely alter all the aspects that make Mario games some of the best games out there. Plus, I would hat it if they made those stupid 15 minute cutscenes that you just want to end, but seem like they never do. If you want a story rich game, play Phoenix Wright or something. And in regards to chess being boring, I couldn't agree with that more. That's why strategy warfare games are fun. They give you a feeling that playing them means something, you know?
Marcelo @ Jan 5th 2008 8:45PM
I don't feel like Mario games need a story. What we need are fewer Mario games and some new IP where you can do whatever you want. A new Mario game should be like a major event that happens once in a blue moon. While it's true that SMG was an event release, Super Paper Mario and all the Mario appearances beforehand in Party, etc. dilute the brand.
Mario + story = Super Paper Mario, which kinda made me sick with all the sappy "Pure Heart" RPG garbage. I kinda felt the same way with Phantom Hourglass and that annoying fairy spirit that seemed oddly identical to the main Pixl in SPM.
Mario needs to appear less on Nintendo consoles so Mario appearances seem like real events. Zelda needs more complex storylines without resorting to sappy RPG cliche, because right now it's teetering on the edge. The only big franchise Nintendo has that has done story pretty well is Metroid, it seems.
Croove55 @ Jan 5th 2008 9:12PM
And that wasn't really Nintendo itself, if we're talking about the Prime series. It was Retro Studios (I know it's a second party developer, but the team's still different), which means that other companies can make better stories with Ninty's franchises than Ninty can by itself. Just look at the story behind Metroid Prime Hunters, which was the one that Nintendo tried to do on their own. Kinda ironic, huh?
Bravo @ Jan 5th 2008 8:57PM
Just say "No" to cut scenes!
Croove55 @ Jan 5th 2008 9:21PM
Come to think of it, I'd like to retract my statement. Mario probably shouldn't have a story, as much as it might help the game. Mario has become a bastion of hope for those who want gameplay over story, so even though Mario + Story = Possible Epic, it's not worth it to give up the "purity" of the series.
PyrosNine @ Jan 5th 2008 11:03PM
If you want plot in a mario game, play a mario-spin off. Even then is' fairly simple enough to drive the premise and gameplay.
They always have "plot", and the same mario platformer stuffs.
Yoshi's island? Mario with egg throwing and flutter jump, and a heartwarming tale of a band of yoshi's helping reunite two brothers.
Yoshi's Story? Baby yoshis rescuing the super happy tree to save their world. Exactly!
Super Princess Peach: Mario is kidnapped (like twice before) and Peach uses her emotions and an umbrella to save the day.
Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Oldstyle mario gameplay, but with puzzles! Mario chases after DK and his monkey business (pun).
Mario games, except the rpg, are not meant to be strong in plot. It weakens the enjoyment. They are meant as simple, yet with growing challenge games that all can enjoy. Compared to the style of gameplay of Zelda and Final Fantasy, the plot is more than adequate, and even though it's pretty basic most every other work of art plot is based upon it: Evil kingdom/empire captures someone and endangers world, hero must stop them.
And every other platformer and action game often has the same amount of simple, even silly plot. Crash Bandicoot, Spyro (which has changed genre recently to encourage the growth of plot), and even the fairly intricate plot of Klunoa is simple when you get down to it.
Adding a sophisticated plot only hampers the platforming goodness.
If you want a fresh mario story, the best thing would be to make the next game ACTUALLY in the Mushroom Kingdom, which would be quite refreshing indeed.
tiamat1990 @ Jan 5th 2008 11:53PM
Do Mario games need a better story?
Yes. Oh god fucking hell they do. If they get that right just imagine how good that would be. Or at least a good atmosphere. I agree with Cory or whatever the fuck his name is. Although I was however not disappointed by Galaxy.