Why can't we play VC games directly from the SD card?
by David Hinkle 
{ Dec 17th 2007 at 1:30PM }
See, the data access speeds for the SD card are extremely slow, apparently. That's why it takes awhile (in the case of the TG16 CD-ROM and NeoGeo, forever) to load the data onto and from there. So, if you tried to play a game directly from the card, it would be an atrocious affair. Shame, really, because the chore of copying and erasing all of this data can be a real pain.
Of course, this is all unconfirmed at this point, considering the "news" comes from a random post on an internet forum. So, if you have a grain or two of salt lying around, be sure to take this tidbit with them.
[Via Go Nintendo and Nintendo Everything]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Satan's Therapist @ Jan 29th 2008 9:49AM
I highly recomend the sandisk extreme III 2 gig sd card. It copies n64 games in under a min. neo geo games in just over a min. snes and megadrive games in 30 seconds or less and nes and turbografx games in 20 seconds or less. an amazing card
Senor Spider @ Dec 17th 2007 1:52PM
Where that makes perfectly sense, does this mean that there's extremely little possibility that can be done about this?
Yes, transferring between SD Card/Wii can be long AND annoying. Deleting and re-downloading can be a pain in the ass as well.
But what's going to happen NEXT year at this time. If we got AROUND 200 VC games in the first year, wouldn't it make sense to estimate that NEXT year at this time we should have close to 400 games?? That's a lot of games, that's a lot of options..and sadly, that's a lot of space.
I am a huge fan of the VC and I have a ton of games already. But I already had to delete my internet channel to make room for more. This is really annoying and overall, defeats the purpose of the "convenience". If in the future I want to load up Pokemon Snap, but I have to delete 3 games then copy Snap from my SD card.. I'm better off just having an N64 plugged into my TV too since after all that work I could already have been playing the game by then.
I just REALLY, REALLY, hope they offer some kind of product. Seriously. There just HAS to be something in which the games can run smoothly from the device..and yet, still go with all of Nintendo's millions upon millions of piracy protection.
Senor Spider @ Dec 17th 2007 2:00PM
I forgot to add one thing.
Besides the fact that it's a safe bet to say next year around this time we may be around the 400 games mark on the VC, it's also been confirmed for 2008 that we will be getting WiiWare titles and who knows how big those games will be.
Not just WiiWare games, but I'm SURE we will wind up getting another 2 or 3 channels. We already are getting that Everybody's Nintendo channel..and I'm sure there will be others along with that.
Too much stuff coming out, not enough space. This is just really upsetting.
Chris @ Dec 17th 2007 1:56PM
That doesn't make sense. I'd happily wait for the games to load... it's going to be a lot quicker than transferring them over isn't it, anyway? Nintendo should give us the option, it's not harming them now, is it?
Phil @ Dec 17th 2007 1:57PM
I have my doubts about the veracity of this. The most basic of SD cards transfers data (and I'm only talking about read speed, which is greater than write speed most of the time) up to six times faster than a CD-ROM. Higher-speed cards are, naturally, higher.
It's probably slower than the Wii's internal NAND flash memory, but I really don't think it'd be a significant detractor.
racecar @ Dec 17th 2007 1:58PM
SanDisk makes some high-capacity SD cards that tout 20MB/s data transfers.
http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1060)-SanDisk_Extreme_III_SD_and_SDHC_Cards.aspx
While I don't actually have one of these SD cards, I can imagine that if you're willing to pay for it, speed isn't a problem.
-racecar
http://everybodyvotes.blogspot.com
Senor Spider @ Dec 17th 2007 2:08PM
$40 for 1GB and $55 for 2GB are not bad prices at all. 1 or 2GB would actually last a long time. I would def pick up a 2GB if they announced this.
In fact, I'd be willing to pay a bit of a premium if there was a Wii version and the VC games ONLY worked with that specific SD card. It's kind of like how they have a white SD card now, and they have "Wii" on it. Well clearly that's just trying to get people to buy a card for their Wii, but still.
Good_Bytes @ Dec 17th 2007 1:58PM
I still wonder what happen if you have so many VC on your console that it fills up the HOLE Wii menu screens...
Does it create a new page (screens) or are you limited with the number of pages (screens) that are given to us.
WhatIsThatThing @ Dec 17th 2007 4:02PM
I think that has actually happened to David Hinkle. From what I can see, you have to completely delete channels to make room; it doesn't add new spaces.
Anticrawl @ Dec 17th 2007 2:04PM
Or just let us save our games on a USB harddrive and run them off said hard drive. If that is a problem then send out some software so people can transfer the files from the SD cards to a computer and burn them to a DVD. That honestly wouldn't be so hard.
Jeremy @ Dec 17th 2007 2:23PM
I would have to agree. Using a USB flash drive, hard drive, or even letting us burn them to a disk all would be great options.
phoenix @ Dec 17th 2007 3:20PM
I think this would be the best option. Then this would put the wii in the realm of disk space with the 360 and ps3. But does wii support usb 2.0? If not then you're looking at possibly worse transfer speeds on usb 1.
Anticrawl @ Dec 17th 2007 3:31PM
The Wii does indeed have two USB 2.0 ports my friend. This is the 21st century and a current generation console.
Anticrawl @ Dec 17th 2007 3:38PM
Nintendo already has patents for a virtual distribution system that would allow all of this and it to work with a Nintendo gaming platform. Maybe all Nintendo is doing is testing their ultra hardcore encryption software before they drop the bomb on this new development. The patents surfaced around the time of the messaging service for Nintendo and for dual touch screens (which had been on my site for nearly 2 years before Joystiq and IGN got wind of them and posted my articles without credit).
Kilo @ Dec 17th 2007 2:15PM
SD cards are not too slow. As racecar said, the speed is there. 20MB/s is 20 mega_bytes_ per second. Your wireless G is 54 mega_bits_ per second. 54Mbps is about 6.75MB/sec. So, the card is faster than a wireless download.
I record video direct to a SDHC card with my camera. If my cam can read/write 30fps HD video, I would have no problem waiting the 2 seconds it would take to load a VC game.
Bryan Law @ Dec 17th 2007 2:24PM
Nintendo's saying that playing games off the SD would be slow, is complete PR BS. I have booted entire operating systems from integrated SD slots, and it can be as fast, or faster than a USB device. There is no excuse for this. If Nintendo will stop using such heavy compression and encryption when a game is transferred to SD, then it would copy faster, and would play just fine. I'm not saying they should put raw game dumps on SD, but just use a simpler DRM wrapper, the system they have in place now is a VERY, VERY paranoid system, security overkill, that's what causes file transfers to take so long. It's a closed system, so the odds of getting a working exploit in regards to the VC games are slim to none anyways.
Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Dec 18th 2007 7:18AM
Thought crossed my mind that it's Wii internal interface to SD card is slow...
Anyway, the whole story is complete disappointment.
00110101 @ Dec 17th 2007 2:26PM
Direct loading from some standardized external device would just be giving the keys to Wii to rogue emulators, pirates and other disrespecters of intellectual property laws.
Even when the entire concept underlying the Virtual Console isn't at stake, Nintendo hates and is vigilant against that sort of miscreant. It's not happening, ever.
WiiMac @ Dec 17th 2007 8:38PM
The SDHC cards are incompatible with the Wii. We're forced to use the standard low speed cards. I tried using my SDHC card that I use for my digital camera and I received an error message.
Michael Sliczniak @ Dec 17th 2007 6:25PM
My SanDisk Extreme® III SD 2GB works fine with the Wii. I use it all the time in the Photo Channel. I believe that no card above 2GB works though. Maybe that was your problem. Also I have never used it to backup anything, I simply pop it out of the camera and use it o view pictures and movies in the Photo Channel.
Gretchen @ Dec 17th 2007 2:37PM
Tell all the supercard owners playing ds games off their sd cards that it doesn't work... that post is bullshit
Bryan Law @ Dec 17th 2007 6:07PM
Yes, because obviously we should all be punished for the crimes of a few.
Bryan Law @ Dec 17th 2007 6:08PM
Ah, crap, replied to the wrong post...
Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Dec 18th 2007 7:19AM
+100
JodyAnthony (Good Eats Defense Force) @ Dec 17th 2007 3:09PM
I have found it quicker to just delete and redownload than copy to SD. It took 5 minutes to copy Kid Icarus to my SD card. It took 2 minutes to download it.
Joe @ Dec 17th 2007 3:18PM
I still think there should be some way for this to work. Plus why can't Nintendo allow there to be a hard-drive. I want a lot of games but because I do not want to have to keep downloading and taking stuff off to play the games I am stuck with only a very small few.
Plus even if the reason Nintendo does not want there to be a Hard-drive because people might think the Wii then costs to much Nintendo can come right out and say you only need it if you want it. So then not every one will buy it just the hard core gamers. Plus seeing as there are some hard core gamers out there that no casual gamer would buy maybe thoses games could use the HD too so that it could cut down on load times.
NutMac @ Dec 17th 2007 3:44PM
Bogus.
As others have pointed out, Wii supports SD 1.1 but not SDHC. Slowest SD cards are 6x (112.5 KB/sec) whereas higher-speed variety, such as SanDisk Ultra II 2 GB (works great with Wii BTW), to perform at MINIMUM of 133x (2.4 MB/sec, similar to SDHC Class 2). Even SanDisk's standard SD card has been measured at 2 MB/sec.
Wii's optical disk performance has been measured to be equivalent to DVD 6x (1 MB/sec). Unless you are using the cheapest SD card, SD should be plenty fast for VC as it is faster than Wii optical disks.
Crana @ Dec 17th 2007 3:51PM
Err... What the hell? You can play MP3's directly from an SD card with no problems, so what on EARTH makes you think you couldn't play a game?! :/
LilCo187 @ Dec 17th 2007 4:06PM
Think of the Shop Channel as the database of all your VC games. Any that you're not actively playing, delete back to the database for future access. And out of the 12 games i've downloaded so far, i only actively play 2 of them.
Now, I DO except some sort of cure in the form of SD and/or USB to come out that will only be compatible with WiiWare (not VC) and allow for storage of WiiWare titles/saves/etc...
Mr Khan @ Dec 17th 2007 4:06PM
Paranoia
Same answer to the question "Why can't we get a decent online system"
Nintendo: One foot in the future, the other cemented in the past
shinneri @ Dec 17th 2007 4:07PM
Why is this news? It's completely wrong! Most titles will be fully downloaded on the RAM before starting the game anyway (why do you think that the Zelda OoT disc for GameCube loads in the very beginning and then it's just like playing the cartridge?)
I don't know whether that's the way VC is done (I assume), but that's how it is on GP2X and works just fine from an SD.
The CD games are a different story, but those are highly compressed on VC anyway, so loading them should be snappier... and actually faster than they were with the actual CD on the actual hardware (seeing as early CD consoles that appear on VC were likely 1x CD-Rom drives ;).
But no matter. I'd never buy a VC game anyway.. I'll just buy the real game for the same or less money. :)
Mr Khan @ Dec 17th 2007 4:29PM
Technically, Nintendo could have the games stream straight off the internet and into RAM, considering that all VC games fit within the Wii's RAM size
themax @ Dec 17th 2007 4:07PM
I call bull on this. My PSP can emulate those SNES, Genisis, NES, and even GBA titles near perfect (a few exceptions of course) using the same SD cards Ninty is saying won't work due to transfer speeds. And the PSP isn't as powerful as a Wii.
Gretchen @ Dec 17th 2007 4:42PM
Nintendo never said they were too slow. Some douche on a messageboard somewhere said they were too slow so now it's 'news.'
SterlingSpring @ Dec 17th 2007 4:23PM
Wait a minute...I thought the maximum Wii allowed to read was a 2 gig SD card...yet the topic is speaking of 4 gigs...am I wrong here?
Nate @ Dec 17th 2007 5:55PM
There are non SDHC 4 gig cards out there that the Wii could read, but typically 4+gig SD cards are SDHC (High Capacity) and the wii would need a firmware update to allow access to these.
nytestalker @ Dec 17th 2007 10:08PM
its still faster to just download them when your ready to play them....
plus if my sd card dies then I have to download them all over again anyway.
If i let nintendo worry about hosting them and just download whenever I feel like playing... then I win.
(I keep the saved games of course, I just delete the game/channel)
Nate @ Dec 17th 2007 5:53PM
All it would take is a Wii Update to get SDHC support.
Richard @ Dec 17th 2007 6:07PM
Maybe even a usb flash memory drive to plug into the back of the wii? maybe 2 or 4 gig. its an easy simple way to have storage, and clean looking too. rather than an actual HD. Maybe Nintendo could go this way?
Mr Khan @ Dec 17th 2007 6:30PM
That's what i've been saying all along
Not a full scale, 20 or more Gig HDD, but a simple, proprietary USB Thumb Drive, that would get the job done with 4-8 Gigs
They are all cartridge games, except the WiiWare stuff (Turbo CD doesn't count, as they only used the extra space for fluff most of the time)
vidGuy @ Dec 17th 2007 6:04PM
I know it's been mentioned, but, uh... RAM? Not too hard to load a few megs of a game into RAM, straight off the SD card. Would take maybe a few seconds and you wouldn't be stuck shuffling games between the internal memory and the card.
Of course, it's going to be harder to run N64-size games or larger this way. Solution: don't allow those to work off external media. Everything smaller than, say, 16MB should work fine.
Carlos @ Dec 17th 2007 6:26PM
but i thought the main problem with VC games playing directly from external memory would be a piracy one. But now that i think about it, Nintendo could have a system that would recognise which games you have on the sd card and only let you play those that you have purchased. That'd be tough to hack, wouldn't it?
fidodo @ Dec 18th 2007 5:45PM
Nope, wrong, sorry. Yes the flash data is much slower, but the thing is that these games are very very small. The wii has 88MB or ram so most games should be able to run right off of that.
For comparison a N64 is 32MB at its maximum, and that should be easily preloaded into ram, even though you wouldn't need to load the entire game at once. So even if they were lazy with their programming they could still implement this. The initial load time would just be a tiny bit longer.
Otis Whitaker @ Dec 17th 2007 7:25PM
Nintendo are gold hoarders who do not care about their customers in the absolute least at all. They do the bare minimum to attract a customer, then they do not, absolutely DO NOT give a single crap about anything. That’s how they’ve always been, and how they always will be.
Minimal effort, maximum profit. The Nintendo motto.
Alan @ Dec 17th 2007 7:44PM
I call bullcrap on this...I swap mp3s to SD and CF cards all the time, we're talking 500+ meg at a time, and it's very fast. Slower than hard drive, yea, but still quite fast.
Atlantis1982 @ Dec 17th 2007 10:41PM
Again, a problem that people take is blow way out of proportion because of laziness. I have no problem at all switching games in and out; just my neat freak in stuff like this. To be frank, I don't understand how people would ever need to have ALL of their VC games is beyond my understanding; I only have 12 (an entire page of channels) just for VC games and that is enough for me.
When I buy a new game, time to swap it from a game I won't play again for a while. Plain and simple, but most people rather they get spoiled.
TurboFool @ Dec 18th 2007 3:28PM
This explanation doesn't hold water for me. The Wii has drastically more available RAM than the size of any of these games plus the amount of RAM the game needs to operate. The Wii could easily load the entire game from the SD card into system RAM and run it FROM the RAM, then save it back to the SD card when done, solving the access time issues and adding a minimum of load time to the beginning.