Do complex games face an uncertain future on the Wii?
On the face of it, the game's commercial failure might seem odd. After all, Zack & Wiki earned eye-catching scores from a number of reviewers, while IGN's Matt Casamassina loved it so much, he frothed and raved about it non-stop for four months, before slapping a 90% on it come review time. Its bright, attractive visuals, cute character design, and puzzley action were seemingly the perfect ingredients for massmarket appeal. Ultimately however, it sank faster than a holed galleon.
Or it could simply be too difficult, period.
Indeed, Zack & Wiki is no pushover. Admirably, producer Hironobu Takeshita has been unrepentant about including challenges that strain the noggin. In fact, it sounded as though he'd had quite enough of the moaning in one recent interview: "There are puzzles where, if you don't look properly at the hints in the start, you're going to be in trouble. You have to look at the screen -- all the answers that you need to solve the puzzles are there on the screen. There are some people who say they don't understand the puzzles, but really, they're not paying enough attention."
Yet as commendable as Takeshita-san's defiance is, there will be plenty of publishers sitting up and taking notice of his game's lumbering commercial performance, and mentally shelving any future plans they might have had to release Wii games that challenge players to think.
Reggie and Shiggy, bless them, have previously taken time out to reassure the hardcore that Nintendo won't abandon them, and with Ninty's vast resources to spare, not to mention its history of catering to core gamers, we're happy to take their word for it.
Will third-party developers be as patient? Historically, Capcom has been happy to push epic games and unique content. But if you want our honest-to-God advice, don't go booking time off for Zack & Wiki 2 yet.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
BrandonIT @ Nov 15th 2007 9:56AM
I honestly never heard one word about this game from anywhere except WFB and the game reviews mentioned above. If you're not going to advertise your game then how do you expect to sell any? Word-of-mouth can only get you so far in terms of "initial" sales figures.
Now that the game is released, and if people are really enjoying it, we should see continued sales figures for the next 6 months or so.
But it amazes me that publishers expect a game to sell like hotcakes its first day out when you see no mainstream advertising of it, especially since most Wii owners are not likely to have subscriptions to various gaming magazines. (After a year, I finally subscribed to Nintendo Power just because I now own a DS and a Wii)
samfish @ Nov 15th 2007 9:58AM
Well, we all expected this, so there's no surprise there, really. It's not like Capcom did shit to advertise it, either.
Monkey @ Nov 15th 2007 10:01AM
I ordered it for the family for Christmas. I'm not sure if its the lack of advertising or that it would appeal more to traditional gamers.
I hope that it does better in the Christmas sales rush. We need more 3rd party Wii games sales or we will be stuck with a bunch of Wii mini games.
mark @ Nov 15th 2007 10:04AM
Why is 45,000 copies a failure. You do realize that the game did not have the grandest budget behind it and probably was only anticipated to sell in 6 months around 100,000 copies.
The way you are spinning this its as if Capcom expected RE4 Wii numbers of which you should also remember were only anticipated to be around 450,000 in their earnings report after 6 months (it then exploded to more than 1 million by the 6th month projection).
If Zack and Wiki hits 100,000 it will most likely be considered a success since Capcom spent $0 on advertising and little on budget.
unreal mccoy @ Nov 15th 2007 10:14AM
I have a feeling that this game could be the next Phoenix Wright.
Joshua @ Nov 26th 2007 11:12PM
I haven't played it yet (I'm asking for it for Christmas), but if it's any bit as good as Ace Attorney, I can't wait.
And as you said, it might spread like the first Ace Attorney did, and become something much bigger.
Tom @ Nov 15th 2007 10:20AM
I will get this game at some point for the girlfriend to play, but I have trouble shelling out $50 for a new game all the time. I paid $30 for Re4 about three weeks ago, and I'm enjoying that slowly over time. By the time I'm done with that, maybe ReUC will be cheaper.
JC @ Nov 15th 2007 10:21AM
The only reason I don't have this game is because I just can't find a copy >:(
Matt @ Nov 15th 2007 10:33AM
Unfortunately the game hasn't been advertized to the mainstream. I personally played this game and it was fun, but not for me (as a purchase at least). But advertise to parents and younger kids, and I guarantee you'd have an expanded audience instantly, and up your sales. That's what this game needs/needed...
flameofdoom666 @ Nov 15th 2007 10:38AM
Tom, Zack and Wiki is 40$.
flameofdoom666 @ Nov 15th 2007 10:39AM
Zack and Wiki was fantastic! I hope it does well enough for a sequal!
Its a great great great game!
vidGuy @ Nov 15th 2007 10:42AM
Woah, let's not abandon ship yet. 45,000 copies for a game that was ONLY advertised on gaming websites is pretty fricking amazing if you ask me. We have holiday sales yet to consider, word of mouth sales yet to consider, and price drops yet to consider. I wouldn't be surprised if this game sold 500,000 before it's done, which for a budget puzzler is great.
As for the state of the Wii, there's two very different forces here. I'm sure there will be more 'casual' titles in the Wii's library than there will be hardcore franchises. And some of those casual titles will sell like crazy - Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. But at the end of the Wii, I have no doubt that you will see Mario, Zelda, Smash, and Metroid within the top 10 best sellers. Those franchises aren't dying, and the sheer number of console should attract more of the 3rd party hardcore franchises, too.
Ponweed @ Nov 15th 2007 10:42AM
WHAT?!?!?!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I shouldn't have waited till the holidays to hope and get it!!!
vidGuy @ Nov 15th 2007 10:43AM
Mm, something I forget. You can't expect great sales when the game ISN'T AVAILABLE. Other than the two copies that came in to Gamestop when I bought mine, I haven't seen a copy in stores yet.
racecar @ Nov 15th 2007 10:47AM
I'm still tossing about this game, because of the lack of coverage and advertising (IGN excluded). After the game was rated and released, I've heard nothing about it. I'm still not really sure whether people who've actually played it are having fun with it. I mean, is it really all that fun? Are people rating it so high because it's actually good or because they're hoping that by giving it a high review, it will increase sales or a poor game but create more and better games of its type? I feel like I can't trust IGN's opinion on the matter considering the seeming amounts of hyperbole surrounding their review. I just want to know if the game is good or whether people just want to see more of the genre. I'm kind of curious as to the NWFB staff's opinion on the game.
-racecar
http://everybodyvotes.blogspot.com
SpartyOn @ Nov 15th 2007 10:47AM
Agreed. I think we can put the smoking gun away here. This is more a case of a game based on original IP, with little to no advertising support, coming out during the peak release season.
james @ Nov 15th 2007 10:49AM
yeah seriously, I never saw a commercial for this one. But Super Mario Galaxy? Free coins, free gift cards, plenty of ads, the works. Of course a game will sell when the publishers put all their might behind it & support it
Tom @ Nov 15th 2007 10:59AM
Flame, thanks for correcting me. I haven't even looked at the price of the game because I figured it would be $50. Just goes to show much I really have been paying attention to this game.
vidGuy @ Nov 15th 2007 11:00AM
@racecar,
There's not a whole lot of coverage, I'd agree. That's why this game is "failing" in some eyes. See the link for a little bit of a review from NWFB and posters.
Z&W is a fantastic game. It's $39.99 and lasts about 15-20 the first time through. Some of the levels will cause you to die several times, but the game allows you to choose if you are going to start from the beginning or at the point at which you died. It is very inventive and uses the remote perfectly. Some of the puzzles are really stumpers - there's already two out of eight levels I've unlocked that I haven't been able to beat. The game is very charming, but if you don't appreciate cell-shading and quirky characters you may not enjoy it. There's limit story. The whole point of the game is trial and error on how to use the items in the level to solve the puzzles. I'd recommend it - though maybe not at $40. I found some discounts when it was released and bought it for $20. If you bought SMG at Toys R Us and got the $25 giftcard, this would be a great game to use it on.
http://nintendo.joystiq.com/2007/10/25/metareview-zack-and-wiki-quest-for-barbaros-treasure/
Cyan09 @ Nov 15th 2007 11:09AM
For me, no matter how good the reviews are, this game just looks stupid. The style looks like something my 8 year old cousin might like for a Christmas gift, but the difficulty is said to be high, so it does seem like they didn't figure out a target audience. The main thing for me is that it is described as a "point and click" game, finding hidden objects by pointing at the screen, with some puzzles and what not. I'd rather not pay $40 for a fancy I-Spy book. I'm sure there is more to it than that but I wouldn't know because there was no advertising, all I have to go on is my impression from reading the box. "point and click" just sounds like the kind of game I want to avoid, much like all the mini-game compilations. I played raving rabids and wario ware and mario party, and although some of the minigames are amusing it just feels like way to cheap of a concept to spend $40-$50 on. Elebits was supposed to be great as well, but again it was described as point and click, which for me translates to point, gimmick, and boredom. If all I'm going to do is point and click, I would much rather point and shoot zombies than point and click for treasure.
jan_halmes @ Nov 15th 2007 11:09AM
Here is why Zack and Wiki "failed".
1) It's a point a click puzzle game.
2) It wasn't advertised at all
3) It's a new franchise that few non-gamers would want to take a chance on.
If this game had been a full on action/adventure title, it would have sold great. But instead it's a Wii-controled Adventures of Lolo type snore fest.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game. But it's got very little action/exploration.
Unless it's Tetris or a Mini-game colelction, a video game needs action or exploration to make money. Capcom should know that.
ssuk @ Nov 24th 2007 8:17PM
P&C games are wonderful if pulled off correctly... Seems this game hasn't really done it.
meist3r @ Nov 15th 2007 11:18AM
I'll up the sales figures by one once it's finally released in Europe. The game was announced to surface on 7th of December all across Europe but for some weird reason Nintendo pushed the release to the middle of January (which is way too long of a time). If they wanted to focus the consumer attention on Mario Galaxy, they surely succeeded. I didn't consider buying Galaxy because I am not a Platform Lover but since there is not a single good game coming until the first quarter of next year I'll have to stick to what I can get. I can't wait for Z&W though because it looks great and I love Point-n-Click Adventures. Unfortunately most people seem to think that this genre is dead and should stay like that.
vidGuy @ Nov 15th 2007 11:20AM
I'll add:
4) You can't find it in stores
5) It was released during the time of high-profile releases
6) Your typical gamer can't put his ego aside and enjoy cell-shading and thus will avoid this game at all costs
Hunter @ Nov 15th 2007 11:25AM
To anyone who said that they stayed away from the game because they were uncertain based on the box, yet reviews were awesome. I have a question for you guys, why not rent it? Give it a try and see what you think, try a new concept on for size. The fact that this game did poorly leads me to be even more frightened for the future of variety in Video Games.
The fear of genres that are not RPG/FPS is not the fault of the game it is the fault of the gamer. If the industry does homogenize itself to the point where there are only one or two genre's I will probably fall out of gaming completly.
Abscissa @ Dec 30th 2007 7:53AM
Because rentals cost $8 these days.
Valien @ Nov 15th 2007 11:29AM
And please don't compare it to Mario selling a few hundred K on it's first day/week. Mario has 20 some years of history behind the name. It's the mascot for Nintendo for Zack's sake.
Z&W looks very interesting to me. Unfortunately my budget is done for a while but maybe it'll arrive on Christmas.
Plus 45K units @ $39.99 = almost $1.8 Million. Not too shabby for a brand new unknown game.
Reeve @ Nov 15th 2007 11:29AM
Believe it or not, I've actually seen a print ad for Zack & Wiki; it was in Disney Adventures (my mom's a teacher and has a subscription). The magazine also worked the game into their coverage of what's coming out this fall/winter. So Capcom did market Z&W at least a little bit!
I think they were also anticipating it to be a sleeper hit, if anything. Point and click adventure games have always been a niche, and one game, no matter how good it is, isn't goint to change that.
Peter S @ Nov 15th 2007 11:34AM
Actually, this is exactly the sort of game I've been looking for - the unique use of the Wii remote is cool, but the adventure/puzzle aspect really got me going. Of course, I'm more into Final Fantasy-type RPG's and Old-school Adventure games (LucasArts, Sierra, etc). I enjoy the puzzles and taking my time to really think about something. That's not to say that I don't enjoy Zelda or Mario at times, but my prefs are different from the average gamer. Give me Castlevania II over Castlevania - let me level up my character and improve my stats/weapons.
I really hope that we see more of these types of games, even if they're in the minority. I don't really look forward to another fight/FPS game. Not even crazy about RTS games and I really don't want an MMO game - I can't devote that sort of time no matter how cool the concept.
This is something my young daughter can help with and sometimes even work through puzzles. Even my wife enjoys it because it's casual and generally not heavy on timing. Here's hoping for more similar games.
-Pete
ryan bean @ Nov 15th 2007 11:44AM
2 cents, There have been a ton of shitty wii games released. Not being able to try out a game, (like you can on PS3/360) will keep a lot of people from trying new things. For me even $40 is a lot for something I may or may not like. Mario, Metroid those are safe bets but Zac who & Wiki what probably is great by it is an unknown and with too many games to spread my thin budget over a lot of gems like this will probably get passed by. It's a shame but there are just too many games for my attention.
Unbreakable_idea @ Nov 15th 2007 11:48AM
Not to be a troll, because I know I am in the minority on this one, but I thought the whole concept/control scheme/flow/fun factor of this game was horrible and bordered on being completely unenjoyable. The pace and control seemed both antiintuitive and boring (I know it's point and click, but wtf). And why was the dialog so awful, long winded, overly simplistic and childish? Since when are today's children huge fans of point and click adventures? They're not, and this game seemed far too childish to appeal to anyone over the age 7. No, I'm not surprised at all at those sales figures. Sorry to fans of the game, I normally don't waste time bashing titles, I just obviously don't get it and missed the point somewhere here.
Russell Carroll @ Nov 15th 2007 11:57AM
As much as people like new and different, it's a hard sell.
You don't know what you are getting beyond what reviewers say, and they don't represent most of us. It's on my GameFly list, but not in the top 5. I wouldn't consider buying it before playing it (unlike Mario Galaxy). All of these reasons do add up to marketing issues, but the biggest one is the personal distance toward something that I can't easily classify into a familiar bucket.
racecar @ Nov 15th 2007 12:03PM
@vidGuy:
I saw the metareview when it came out but was hoping for a little more of their opinions, since the article seemed a little unbiased. In fact, I saw your comments in that metareview thread and found them somewhat helpful. The cell-shading doesn't bother me near as much (I liked Windwaker), it's more the spending money on an unknown franchise that scares me a touch. Perhaps I'll wait on it a little bit and snag it on a deal sometime, as you suggested. I like point-and-click games, but I just want to be sure that this one is worth my money when there are so many other games that I'm excited about as well. It's going to be a good holiday season for the Wii, but tough on the wallet as always.
-racecar
http://everybodyvotes.blogspot.com
guttertalk @ Nov 15th 2007 12:43PM
While Capcom should be the one promoting the game, I think Nintendo is missing a step here. The 360 dashboard is clunky, but those ads do work . . . I'm always checking for what's new.
The Wii should have some way, be it a channel or even emails, that new products for the Wii can be announced, not just Nintendo updates.
A channel focused on new games would be great, and I think owners would use it. Sure, demos would be nice, too, like the 360 does. But even having a channel where publishers can includes videos of their new games would be great. I think it would also go far in showing that Nintendo does care that 3rd party games succeed, too.
mark @ Nov 15th 2007 1:30PM
#29 said
"Zack & Wiki was produced in limited quantities by Capcom to gauge the market. They have now seen the sales and have most likely adjusted their production rates accordingly, so expect this game to still be scarce and rare to find. And because of that, sales will continue to fall down."
That was exactly my point, Capcom has one goal and thats to make money. If it estimates that the game will sell 75,000 and it sells 20,000 that is a failure.
I HIGHLY doubt they banked on selling more than 150,000 copies max of this game. I mean RE4 Wii they had only anticipated selling 450,000 in 6 months (See their financials for proof) and that game is a million dollar budgeted game with a lot riding on it and the Wii version was a gamble at best given how many times the game was released.
If Capcom only expected to sell 450k of RE4 Wii why would anyone think they will be disappointed with only say 100,000 copies of Zack and Wiki being sold??
Do you guys even realize how the game industry works, not everything has to sell 1 million copies to get a sequel or be considered a success, especially on the Wii.
The PS3 and 360 its known in documentation that each game needs to sell around 500k to break even, the Wii has MUCH less of a requirement given the development tools are so cheap and costs low
deaddays @ Nov 15th 2007 1:40PM
DAMMIT PEOPLE! That's gonna be ANOTHER awesome possible franchise down the tubes because people can't give something different a chance. I'm on the last level right now with Barbaro, and it's been an AMAZING experiece so far! My brain hurts after ever level... in the best way possible. C'MON CAPCOM! SEQUEL!
Jay @ Nov 15th 2007 2:47PM
Like I've said before, great game, especially with more than one person in the room. It's more fun and easier with two minds crunching the puzzles.
But I won't cry if there isn't a sequel. You can't expect all the awesome, innovative games to be blockbusters. To me it was just a rewarding experiences that I took a chance on, and it payed off. Yes, it was a $40 gamble on whether or not I would like it, but I did, so all is well. Reminds me of the NES days, before rentals, when every game purchase was a gamble.
BlackBeltJones @ Nov 15th 2007 2:53PM
It's when great games like Zak and Wiki get ignored that the Mario effect bugs me, if they had slapped a mustache, plunger and Italian accent on Zak this would have sold 100,000 the first week.
Ren @ Nov 15th 2007 3:17PM
lol, Zack and Wiki is still sitting in the backroom in the Toys R Us I work at. I'd do something about it, but I don't work in the R Zone department of the store.
Larz @ Nov 15th 2007 3:33PM
I never heard a lick about it except from here. Had I not subscribed to WiiFanboy, I wouldn't even have known it existed. I'm sure that probably has a lot to do with it's failure.
@mark
"Why is 45,000 copies a failure."
You obviously don't know how much it costs to produce a game. Even a low budget game costs a few hundred thousand just to program. That's not including production, regional conversions, misc. red tape, advertising, etc. Heck even a million dollar advertising budget is considered cheap and won't give you much coverage.
nil @ Nov 15th 2007 3:50PM
Capcom has failed Zack and Wiki. That's the bottom line. More hype for this game was generated by IGN, Go Nintendo and Destructoid than Capcom. The graphics are beautiful and the gameplay is a blast. If Capcom had bothered to get the word out, this game would have sold better. Nintendo has done the same thing to several of its games, namely Fire Emblem, Metroid Prime 3 and Battalion Wars. If a company that's publishing a game has no faith in it, neither will the customers.
I truly hope that gamers are not avoiding the game due to the art direction. I'm sick of the extremely realistic approach and the use of browns and greens.
mark @ Nov 15th 2007 4:14PM
@Larz
I do know how much it costs to make a game, and you should know that Capcom spent very little on advertising (the only ads they did ran in kids magazines, but there was no tv ads or anything which would indicate the bare minimum you would give a game not expected to sell).
I am just saying that to consider it a failure is assuming too much, nobody knows how much Capcom intend to sell and with every video game release a company knows how much "acceptable" loss they are willing to take.
If you guys want every game to hit 1 million copies then 95-98% of the video games released are "failures".
I fully expect when Capcom releases their next financial statements to see that they had only anticipated 250,000 copies sold worldwide (which no doubt will be reached if the it has a decent holiday season of 10,000 a week in the US and then decent sales in the UK) in 6 months....and that would be generous at best.
Michael Sliczniak @ Nov 15th 2007 4:19PM
First this game is not the best puzzle/adventure game but it is one of only a handful around today. It is also the best game I have played on any of the current gen consoles and I say that even after playing SMG last night. Man I miss the adventure game heyday...
This is not a hard puzzler though. Remember all those games from the '80s and '90s where if you did not find some item near the beginning of the game you could get to almost the end of the game and then had to start over? Remember trying to use various items across vast worlds not knowing if you had what you needed? Those were hard games, so far every level has been straight forward with Zack and Wiki.
My guess is if they sold 130K in NA over 6 mo Capcom would be very pleased, below 100K very disappointed. Sadly it looks not to be on track. It was very hard for me to find, I finally stumbled across it when I bought SMG for my cousins. I think that and the lack of advertising does not help.
This game is loved by my wife, my kids, and me. We have been having a great time sitting around playing it together and working-out the puzzles. My wife made the valid comment that the characters are not cute enough. I can agree with that, see how the Rabbids overtook Rayman, so the game does not really stand-out. I love all of the very funny ways to die. Hopefully there will be more attempts at adventure/Puzzle games in the future. It would be nice if we got to one that had a wide arcing and engrossing story tying all of the puzzles together...
TX2 @ Nov 15th 2007 8:55PM
Don't look at me, I picked up the game on day one.
SoshiKitai @ Nov 15th 2007 10:08PM
Simply put, it's awkward for many people to suddenly spend their money on a "complex" adventure game for the Wii...
...many people seemed to have begged and pleaded for great platformers and adventure games to come out more often for the Wii... and when they got it, they didn't know what to do with it.
O_o
Alan @ Nov 15th 2007 10:32PM
I bought it on day one and I'm addicted...but it's way too hard for young kids.
I do hope they make a part 2 :(
CaptainBoosh @ Nov 16th 2007 4:28AM
I bought it day one and have fallen in love so hardcore. It's another one of those niche titles everyone will praise from now until the end of time, but no one buys. Think Psychonauts.
And anyone who played point and click adventures on computers back in the day should be the first in line for this game. they complained about that genre disappearing, but here it is in full force and this happens.
I did my part and supported a third party game that was awesome. I trusted all the reviews and that was how I made my decision. NOT TO MENTION AT ONLY $40!
People are lame sometimes, we just have to grow our niche. It's not our fault people are satisfied with Madden and other generic shooting games. People don't realize there is room for both, not just one or the other. This makes me all angry inside.
Ryan P. @ Nov 16th 2007 4:52AM
@ #7 JC
I went to EB games and they didn't have it on display i had
to ask for it. They were hording copies in the back. So if you didn't know about the game you wouldn't have access to it. So be sure to ask if they have the game even if you don't see it on the shelf. I have no idea why they would do that.
RIch @ Nov 16th 2007 6:48AM
I thought the game was fantastic. I was stumped plenty of times and when I finally gave in and asked for a hint, the solution was always something that was so obvious that I was mad at myself for giving in. These are extremely clever puzzles.
And the story is pretty sweet too.
I think word of mouth might propel this game well enough. I'm hoping for a sequel myself.
j @ Nov 16th 2007 6:59AM
I think this was a fabulous game. Definatly in the top 5 of Wii titles avalable (MP3, SMG, RE4, MP8, ZW in no order) in my opinon, this game is awsome to play with my wife, she takes the controler and we talk out the puzzles. I agree though the style of animation does seem a bit childish for the difficulty of the puzzles. I would definatly buy a quality knock off of this style