Could Nintendo have ruined Mario Kart?
by David Hinkle 
{ Oct 12th 2007 at 7:00PM }
But we will agree with them in saying that the GameCube entry Double Dash was lackluster, at best. The game seemed to be making a return to more traditional values, as it were, on the handheld circuit, with the DS game absolutely blowing us away. Now, the Wii game looks like it's going to follow in the footsteps of the GameCube game.
Now, as we said, we're not passing judgment prematurely, but we are concerned. Are you not concerned? Or, are you confident Nintendo will knock it out of the park, as they say?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Troy @ Oct 12th 2007 7:07PM
Woah, woah, WOAH! Was the use of a double seat kart on Double Dash optional or mandatory? Did its inclusion significantly alter control, and was it an option to not experience this alteration in control?
Double Dash was not an expansion, because it limited you to its new choice.
MK: Wii =is= an expansion because it offers the -choice-, in among the familiar, of a new option. Expanding something originally made in the early Ninties neededn't 'ruin' a franchise.
Especially since MK:DS was so outrageously popular why should Nintendo release another game exactly like it only on a console not that much later?
Sensai @ Oct 12th 2007 7:19PM
I think I'm one of the six people who actually enjoyed MK:DD!!
No, Nintendo won't ruin MK (for me) because (for me) DD!! was a great game. Thus, more of the same with a shinier engine and a few polishes here and there would be awesome.
But, have faith. Nintendo got their DS MK working great, so there's no reason to believe that they would eff the Wii's MK in the aye.
Gilvy12 @ Oct 12th 2007 7:23PM
Its an overstatement to say that Double dash was lackluster. I really enjoyed it, and yea, it is different from the previous MK games, but does that make it bad? Not necessarily, and it certainly had its merits. Its premature to pass judgement on the new game when we know practically nothing about it. The addition of motorcycles could be purely asthetic....
Troy @ Oct 12th 2007 7:28PM
You know, I certainly didn't want to accuse DD of having anything wrong with it. I just think that if it was considered something malignant by some people, or looked at as though it 'changed too much,' it would have been because of the mandatory inclusion of two riders per kart. But you know what, I think its pretty sad that Nintendo isn't one of the game companies that keeps putting out the same thing again and again, they take risks and change things, and every time they do about 8% of the gaming population reacts as though this slight risk and slight adventuresome element ruins the franchise. It is people and especially critics reacting that way that force(s) more low-scale game makers especially into releasing the same old same ol'.
I think it is worth stating that until I read this article about the reactions of the CVGers I never thought anything but 'holy crap, COOL!' about the inclusion of bikes. I did look to see if they would have some kind of steering wheel, for continuity, but perhaps you use just the remote in motorcycle mode? If that's the case its an awesome way to differentiate between controller preferences in a visual way. Plus, I mean they just look cool. Wario is known for his motorbiking anyway, and why should he have all the fun?
KH Fan @ Oct 12th 2007 7:59PM
You know, my sentiments are exactly the opposite of this article's. I got amazing replay value out of Double Dash. My friends and I had a blast teaming up, and almost never played single-style. By contrast, I thought the DS title was boring as hell. It did nothing new! I felt like I was playing the same thing from the SNES and N64, just with a bit more polish.
I really hope that Mario Kart Wii includes the option to race Double Dash style.
DonWii @ Oct 12th 2007 7:58PM
I had no complaints with Double Dash. I really like how Nintendo tried to spice up their franchises last gen.
Mario with FLUDD
Link with Sailing/Celda
Kart with Double Karts
DK with Bongos
I have no complaints about the motorcylcels, nor the fact that the vehicles don't look like tiny karts anymore.
wizky911 @ Oct 12th 2007 8:00PM
mario kart has never let us down
the last mario kart which was on the DS shows us they're current mind set. so if u like that one i'm sure u'll like the wii version
Humanzee @ Oct 12th 2007 8:01PM
What the hell, seriously motorcycles are going to ruin the game? So far they look like nothing more than 'skins' for the karts. Even the the DS game had different kart designs and bikes look to be nothing more than that.
Mike @ Oct 12th 2007 8:05PM
Troy hits it right on the head. People clamour "give us something different!" and when they do, they start complaining.
The same thing happened with Wind Waker taking cel shading as its style and taking a much more fairy tale approach to the narrative.
Irit H @ Oct 12th 2007 8:16PM
Double dash was awesome, I liked the double-seats feature, probably because I was a horrible driver but a badass thrower, I hope they have the option of double seats in this game.
Rubang B (NDF - Heart) @ Oct 12th 2007 8:27PM
I loved Double Dash, and this one sounds even more amazing. Is it possible to like oldschool Mario Karts as well as new experimental Mario Karts? The worst Mario Kart will be what, the 6th best racing game ever?
sepaar @ Oct 12th 2007 8:22PM
I actually enjoyed DD. But, I also have a younger brother, so we got a lot enjoyment out of it. I was better at driving, and he was better at the battle aspect of it, so it worked out matching our strengths. I can honestly say I though this looks cool when I saw it. Especially with 12 player online, this will be a pretty good game.
Dopple Boppler @ Oct 12th 2007 8:26PM
If motorcycles have ruined Mario Kart Wii, then what the heck did R.O.B.'s robot legs do to Mario Kart DS? Apparently it inversed the polarity of its horribleness and made the game awesome. But obviously motorcycles are going to ruin this one.
mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 12th 2007 8:39PM
I really really loved DD. It was the first MK I played was was fun as hell! I still play it over and over again.
The DS and 64 games are so slow and boring compared to it. I have 64 on the VC and played it twice, and stopped playing DS after I lost EVERY online game because I don't snaking.
The Wii game would do well to learn from DD.
fulluphigh @ Oct 12th 2007 8:40PM
I'm a tad late to the party, as several others have said it already, but how the hell**** will motorcycles damage the game with the tons of choices of vehicles (including a tank) helped make Mario Kart: DS beyond awesome?
Someone needs to shut up and quit whining for the sake of whining.
modeps @ Oct 12th 2007 8:43PM
I have a feeling that I'm floating away from the Nintendo camp. They have a place in my heart as I grew up with them. but some of the stuff they're putting out is meh.
Oh, and with 12 player on the track online, how can you talk to them? Oh thats right you cant because that is dangerous.
Grant @ Oct 12th 2007 8:46PM
Both Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart DD were great. Was DD the same as the MK64? No, but that made it better. Nintendo including bikes isn't going to make it any worse for me. In fact it will probably make it better since it adds some more variety.
troy @ Oct 12th 2007 9:16PM
I know this isn't entirely on the original topic, but honestly how the hell does getting yelled at by 12 year olds add to gameplay? You can always friggin CALL these people on the phone if you know them or voice chat some other way and if you don't know them who needs them yelling. I never feel like 'saying' anything to people I play tetris DS against. If I were to say anything, it would be things I inadvertently said to myself, like 'good move!' or 'damn you!' I don't think them hearing me lose angrily or gloat winningly would be very good for me or them, respectively.
Billy_McBong @ Oct 12th 2007 9:43PM
i think the bikes will add to the gameplay because they are optional
i didn't like DD because we were forced to use the 2 people per cart
and i didn't like that
@troy
talking to people while playing the game makes them seem more human. if you cant talk to them it can sometimes be like playing a computer(which is why i stopped playing MK:DS online, that and no one was ever on)
Magnus @ Oct 12th 2007 9:48PM
MKDD wasn't that bad: the only problem was that it had too little courses and had no online mode. Now that there is online mode with up to 12 players including battle mode (much more than in MKDS), this game will be fantastic. And just because characters ride motorcycles doesn't mean that the game will be bad. Didn't Wario ride a car in MKDD? Or isn't there a tank as a selectable kart in MKDS? So what?
Patius @ Oct 12th 2007 10:10PM
Hey, just cause their bikes doesn't mean that the controls will be bad and that they will do something as bad as double dash.
The motorcycles seems to be just a new kart.
I doubt that riding on a bike will change gameplay too much, if at all besides wheelies.
Edge @ Oct 12th 2007 10:57PM
Oh my god! Something different!
Just because something isn't traditional or conventional, that doesn't mean it's wrong. There will be plenty of time for questions like this one once the game is actually out.
Chyld989 @ Oct 12th 2007 11:11PM
Personally I loved Double Dash (still play it at least once or twice a month, usually more), and I couldn't stand Mario Kart DS (and that hatred has nothing to do with snaking). If they're using the same mindset to make this game as they did to make Double Dash, count me in.
Sonic_13 @ Oct 12th 2007 11:28PM
That is just ridiculous! The inclusion of motorcycles is going to ruin the game? They are for basically just karts with two wheels. Sure they may handle differently, but all the karts handle differently. In this case we have nothing to fear, but fear itself.
I could understand this concern if it went the route of Diddy Kong Racing and started having airplanes, etc...but otherwise this was just created to try and stir up ire towards our beloved Nintendo.
I am actually looking forward to motorcycles. I think it was a great idea to include them and will add greater variety and strategy to the gameplay.
Drew @ Oct 12th 2007 11:52PM
What was special about DS Mario Kart other than being able to hold it in your hands? If Double Dash had online play it would have been awesome.
radioioRobert @ Oct 12th 2007 11:58PM
I agree that adding Cycles is a good thing. I'm sure they will have the best acceleration, and (if they don't handle like the traditional kart) might wipe out if you aren't careful on a power slide.
I love all the versions of MK, I no longer have the original, but have the GC, WiiVC64, GBA & DS versions. Although I do admit that I like playing some of the DD tracks with one driver on the DS a liitle better. From DD I certainly won't miss the passenger getting dragged around behind the kart whining! I still think that DD was a great game, and had amazing replay when competing with others. I played it yesterday as a matter of fact, and DS & VC64 today. All this MK news has caused these games to come out of retirement at my house!
Dark Lord @ Oct 13th 2007 12:56AM
In the name of all that is holy, don't do it Nintendo! I understand that MarioKart is amazingly cool and that by doing this they would be messing up the title! Motorcycles???!!! Not good!
Dark Lord @ Oct 13th 2007 12:56AM
In the name of all that is holy, don't do it Nintendo! I understand that MarioKart is amazingly cool and that by doing this they would be messing up the title! Motorcycles???!!! Not good!
Charcoal @ Oct 13th 2007 1:03AM
Motorcycles might not ruin the game but knowing nintendo, they'll find a way.
Dark Lord @ Oct 13th 2007 1:01AM
Besides, think about it! Mario-KART! They'd be messing up the very meaning of the game. Sure, DK with bongos is just great but, sometimes you just have to let everything be the way that it was. Not change everything just because we want to make a name for ourselves! Remember, if the name we're making for ourselves is good or not. Look at Halo and the beauty of its consistency... Just beautiful.
warioswoods @ Oct 13th 2007 1:22AM
I'm amazed that there is some apparent consensus, completely unbeknownst to me and everyone I've played it with, that claims that MKDD was 'lackluster'. Did the reviewer actually grow up with these games over the years as I did, playing every single iteration in the series, and disagree with me on DD that sharply? It is an excellent game, one of the top games in the franchise, and one of the primary reasons for that is the very thing several of you seem to be criticizing - the two riders per cart. My only possible guess is that you don't have the most congenial friends, for in my experience, the double feature makes the game that much more frantic and enjoyable with four people; and that includes playing with my non-gamer friends and female friends as well as those who own 360s, etc.
Oh well, in any case - my verdict is that DD was exceptional, far from lackluster, and I haven't heard a valid criticism of it yet, only whining about the one nuance of the game, the double karts.
padgon @ Oct 13th 2007 1:45AM
Actually Im exited about the motorcycle idea, Mario Kart DD ok wasn’t the best but is really fun to play. Now for the people that wanna play on karts, just chose the kart and beat all moto dudes. In other words I agree with Troy (first comment).
Mariolegend @ Oct 13th 2007 2:11AM
I love MK:DD hands down. IF I had the power to make another version of Mario Kart, I would add DD Option. When I entered LAN mode with my buddies, that was pure frantic Fun! Never in all the Mario Karts have I ever experience that crazy level of fun.
So if Nintendo puts motorcycles in the game, then so be it. I just hope we get more variation and selection. Hell, the best thing Nintendo can perfect this game is if they create a channel for content just for the game. Like Wii Fit, they should create a channel where you can customize anything in the game and tell you stats and info where you are in the leaderboard or whatever extra content in which you can download later to add in-game. Then I will be in paradise with Mario Kart.
ruzkin @ Oct 13th 2007 2:29AM
Sorry NintendoWiiFanboy, but you're talking out your arse. DD was a brilliant game - I've never had so much fun with a co-op game, blasting through the cups with a friend, trading between who was gunning and who was driving. The loss of co-op may lead me to give MK-Wii a skip, not something so trivial as motorcycle skins.
AJ @ Oct 13th 2007 4:26PM
MK:DD lackluster? Are you fucking nuts? That game had great colorful graphics.Silky smooth frame rate, and I think the two players per vehichle was nothing short of inspired. MK:DD is the only console video game my wife ever played and enjoyed. A girl I work with dislikes video games except for,you guessed it, Mario Kart:Double Dash.
Hinkle maybe you should go write for 1up I got a feeling you would fit right in.
Motorcycles sound cool to me.
steve @ Oct 13th 2007 3:58AM
it's just motorcycles...i don't see how this is considered heresy. i'll buy it.
Sonic_13 @ Oct 13th 2007 4:09AM
Just because the game is called MarioKart doesn't mean that it can't have motorcycles. The essence of the game is the crazy racing with crazy items.
It really doesn't matter what vehicle you are in or even what the title of the game is called. The game will be the same whether they call it MarioKart, Mario Racing, Mario Grand Prix or whatever. Are you really going to value a name more than gameplay?
All that matters is the racing and motorcycles are only going to add more variation and more strategy to an already awesome series.
tiamat1990 @ Oct 13th 2007 5:56AM
What the fuck?? There were weirder "vehicles" on Mario Kart DS!!!
Glenn @ Oct 13th 2007 6:20AM
I dont understand,
I LOVED but then truly LOVED MK:DD!! I've played it for hours, as so I did with MK:DS
And bikes or not, I even will do it with MK:wii
Blue @ Oct 13th 2007 12:50PM
Guys, one of R.O.B.'s cars in MKDS was pretty much a motorcycle... why should this be any different? It played like a normal kart!
I'm getting this game.
jhb @ Oct 13th 2007 8:46AM
For me being able of "snaking" is the biggest mistake included in this game, it should disappear simply because it goes against the principles made by Nintendo : giving the same chance to any gamer. Mario kart is all about equality for everyone and "bad luck / chance" for all ! Get rid of the Snake !
Matt @ Oct 13th 2007 10:36AM
One person mentioned it before, but I'd like to repeat...
Does anyone else find it ironic that Nintendo is now releasing the game WITH a steering wheel, only to announce that they're also including vehicles that don't HAVE steering wheels?
I mean, don't get me wrong, the wheel is not going to be critical to gameplay in any way (save perhaps remapping a few button locations--is it a plug-in or does it just kinda snap into place? I haven't gotten a close enough look yet to know/judge. Anyway, the wheel will now be LESS important than it already was. So people will be less inclined to buy extras. Not sure what N was trying to do with that one...
NvM @ Oct 13th 2007 10:59AM
They ruined it with the Wii wheel, if anything.
troy @ Oct 13th 2007 12:13PM
At matt about the mention of the wii wheel: don't you realize the wheel just comes with it? And perhaps the difference in choice between karts and bikes makes a difference to control, and bikes don't even use the wheel. but still, steering will be easier, turning the wii remote around in circles is something that will be so much easier with the wheel, I mean complete circles not just tilting it to the side.
Deuz Augustine @ Oct 14th 2007 3:31PM
Didn't MK:DS have a construction shoveler?
DrunkenKender @ Oct 15th 2007 12:12AM
How does the OPTION of using a motorcycle instead of a kart destroy the game? Wario had a low-rider, and a big pimpin' low-rider it was, but it didn't seem to be so jarring to me. Ditto for the unlockable train available to Donkey Kong. So, what's the big deal exactly? I'm confused.
yossy @ Oct 15th 2007 1:24AM
I loved the SNES and 64 versions of Mario Kart but the GC version of "Double Dash" disappointed me. Personally, controls felt off, battle mode was uninspiring, and items were over-powered / unbalanced. IGN was of the same opinion, rating it a (7.9). It had nothing to do with the dual-swapping of drivers, which was pretty cool. It was a love-it or hate-it title, let's leave it at that.
That said, the motorcycle looks to add a new dimension: wheelies see to add a burst of speed like the powerslide. Hopefully it' a vehicle for veterans.
yossy @ Oct 15th 2007 1:24AM
Of the games with information available on Wikipedia:
Super Mario Kart (SNES) 8 Mill
Mario Kart 64 (N64) 8.5 Mill
Mario Kart DS (DS) 7.5 Mill
and...
Mario Kart: DD! (GC) 4.5 Mill
On GameRankings.com, DD! barely beats out the 64 version by 1.1% (87% and 85.9% respectively) which nearly outsold it by 2 to 1 (I'm assuming VC downloads of 64 didn't even count here). So yes, by the numbers, reception and reviews of Double Dash! were relatively lackluster. Dave Hinkle is more in touch with the world than a majority of the people here (consisting of a vocal minority).
Qwikstreet @ Oct 15th 2007 6:32AM
So, motorcycles goes against the kartish title? What about the tank, airplane, frontendloader, Waluigi's chopper motorcycle, and more that was in MKDS that was not a cart.
It takes more than a vehicle add to a game to ruin it.
sketchampm @ Oct 15th 2007 9:20AM
I haven't met a single person that played Mario Kart: Double Dash!! and didn't love it. Two of my friends argue that it's better than any other Mario Kart game, my gf is STILL obsessed with it, and my friends still play it with friends at college.
Since WHEN was Double Dash lackluster? I don't think I got that memo...